PvP Bracket & Rankings Issue

Good afternoon Council!

There is an issue with top Player vs. Player (PvP) Ranking Rewards (Hero of the Horde/Alliance and Seasonal Gladiator) which I believe most people are aware of, but it’s never really been discussed or addressed. Relevant to the issue is a detrimental impact it has on the PvP bracket as a whole. Although I know the entire Council doesn’t participate in PvP, I wanted to create this post here since it does impact the entire bracket, even for the casual players. I think it would be beneficial for Blizzard to review our thoughts on the issue.

On July 28, 2022, I analyzed the ratings and alternative characters (alts) of the top 50 ranked PvPers on the Rated Battleground Grounds (RBG) Ladder. (Source Data: CheckPvP and Arenamate. I chose RBGs since it’s personally the bracket players I’m most familiar with, but I know this issue is rampant in the Arena bracket as well). The data was compiled into a Google Sheets page, which I will be sharing within the Community Council Discord for your reference. Let me preface this post by clarifying the purpose is not to disparage or “target” any specific players, nor is there (or should there be) any animosity towards those analyzed. They were simply the top 50 yesterday, and I could’ve compiled further, but using the 50 alone was enough to prove my point.

Issue: Players who acquire the Hero of the Horde (top 0.5% bracket rating), Hero of the Alliance (top 0.5% bracket rating), and Seasonal Gladiator (top 1% bracket rating) tend to be a majority of the same persons on multiple characters, even consisting of the same class/specializations. These players also have multiple alts of the same class/specialization as their mastered mains throughout the lower bracket.

Potential Causations: World of Warcraft has a social dynamic tied to it. Players at the top of the bracket tend to play with each other and push ratings together. The best play with the best. Therefore, players typically only play their main characters (“mains”) when they have enough of their friends/partners available to play their mains to push with. Naturally, these timings do not always coincide with everyone’s playtime (especially in a RBG team where you need 10 players); however, players still want to play the game, and a lot of the time, they want to play the character/class they push rating with. This causes them to make an alt of the same character/class to queue with as many of their friends available at any given time, even if the full team isn’t available. Because there are no rewards from Random Battlegrounds, and the level of competitiveness is vastly different between rated and random, these players want to play the rated version of the game.

Ramifications: This results in players who have already mastered a specialization and class to take multiple spots of the top percentile rewards with their alts of the same specializations and classes. It also causes them to play alts of those same mastered classes at lower brackets. This results in players who are lower on the bracket to have to fight against top-skilled players on those same mastered class/specializations at lower match-making rating (MMR). It can create a frustrating experience for lower bracket players to have to fight these players at the same MMR as them, despite the skill disparity being so vast. It can also create a frustrating experience for higher rated players who end up queueing against these top-skilled players on their same class/specializations alts, who are at a much lower mmr. It creates an unnecessary high-risk, low reward for the higher rated team on their mains.

Supporting Example Data: Typically, the Hero of the Horde/Alliance comprises of approximately the top 300 bracket slots. On July 28, 2022, the top 50 ranked RBG players hold 105 of these slots. (Please View Google Sheets for Reference). These 50 players actually hold 35% of the slots for the Hero titles. Furthermore, of these 105 slots, 54 of them comprise of player’s characters of the same class. This is a small sample size; the number of players seizing title spots with alts of the same class/specialization as their mains is much higher.

Potential Solution Re: Alts: Holding a high rating can sometimes force a player who is pushing at the very top to “sit” their character until they can play with their main team. Afterall, a 2700 rated player usually does not want to create a high-risk, low-reward situation by queueing with a 2100 rated team. Players want to play though, and competitive players want to experience the competition. One possible solution is to allow players to be able to toggle before queueing whether they want to allow rating changes on their character for the next match. This would allow players to play their mains and queue freely without having to create multiple alts of the same class/specialization. Despite whether the rating change is toggled off, I believe the main’s mmr should still be considered in the team’s mmr calculation though. It would help remove these top-skilled players from decimating the lower brackets on alts of their mastered mains. I am aware there is a potential to abuse this idea systematically, so I believe safeguards to prevent that abuse would need to be considered as well. (I acknowledge the potential criticism that seeing a 2700 rated player in an 1800 mmr team may be deemed unfavorable; however, I’d argue that it’s better to know that is a 2700 rated player rather than queuing against them on the same class/specialization disguised as an 1500 rated player).

(Potential Solution Re: Alts, Specific to RBG: Create a rated bracket similar to “Solo Shuffle”, but for RBGs. Perhaps limit it to queue with 2-3, and change the team size to a 6v6. This would give players another avenue to play their mains when their full team isn’t available, but a few partners are.)

Potential Solution Re: Titles: Mastering a Rogue is vastly different from mastering a Warlock. Players should be rewarded for mastering multiple classes; however, I do not believe players should be able to occupy the top bracket percentile rewards with multiple of the same class/specialization. Acquiring above 2400 rating grants a player an achievement title “ the Elite ”. Perhaps Blizzard can add some type of mechanism so the title is account-wide, and the first character to achieve that class title is the only one on that account who can be considered for the top seasonal rewards for that class.

Final Notes: I’ve enjoyed PvPing against the top ranked teams these past few seasons, and queueing with my alts at the lower PvP brackets. I empathize when lower teams are (even unknowingly) matched against top-ranked players on alts of the same class as their mains and absolutely obliterated. I also empathize with the higher ranked teams who queue into them and risk losing a lot of points despite having to face against the same high-skill as if they were the same rating. But it’s also important to sympathize with the players who want to play the game. I believe there needs to be a change so top-skilled players are not forced to create multiple alts of the same class just to be able to play competitively with that class. It negatively impacts the bracket.

What are your thoughts and feedback?

(P.S. As I know the Discord’s text channel can move rather rapidly, please do not hesitate to contact me directly via Discord or in-game if you need access to the spreadsheet again.)

14 Likes

This is pretty insane when you Q for literally any Mmr as you will always hit someone on an alt or a bunch of people on an alt and absolutely demolish the other team

I think the most insane example I have seen is one of my buddies who heals who has 4 priests all way above hero range and everytime he pushes above hero he just switches to another priest to keep playing. I think alt games really dont mean anything when the person playing can just reset their Mmr by smurfing on another alt/account.

I think if you removed alts it would let in like 40% more people because of how many spots it would add. I think it would be really cool to see someone with a hero title and like 5 time rogue hero for a single season instead of just regular hero

I think the problem is certainly something blizzard need to look into as being in the bracket is pretty painful for new players resulting in literally no one joining every season and RBGs being totally dead near the end of each season and expansion. Every season just bleeds players who are sick of nothing changing season to season

5 Likes

Thoughtful post, I’ve been playing mostly classic recently and there’s a similar phenomena there. Certain players have 2, 3, or even 4 or more characters in R1 territory. Many others have multiple gladiators; both repeat classes (which are a bit more justified in TBC due to needing teams) and multi classes.

A hard “one title per class” might sound good on paper, but people will just make new accounts and put their second rogue on their second account. The old battlegroup system helped spread out the rewards because the true top 50 or so players weren’t necessarily all together, but even this system was still exploited by last minute transfers or multi character/accounts (ex. Season 8 with Vileroze’s 7 Wrathful Gladiator Mages across different battlegroups). I had hoped that having no arena teams going into WotLK classic would help alleviate the problem since you didn’t have to lock yourself to a team. It’s disheartening to hear that it also impacts retail which already doesn’t have teams.

I legitimately have no reasonable idea to solve this “problem” (if Blizzard even sees this as a problem). The only thing I could see being feasible would be having Blizz manually check IPs or something for different accounts/classes in the top cutoff. Another thought would be when the two-week notice goes out (call it “playoffs” or something), arena ratings are all reset to 0 and everyone collectively has 2 weeks to push as high as you can. This would put less pressure on players to be ultra competitive during the regular season and would force them to focus more on certain characters during the playoffs. However, it’s likely unreasonable to require people to play 100+ games over the course of two specific weeks.

3 Likes

I think this is a little far to enforce it but they could always encourage multi class heros by adding a mutlclass reward

1 Like

Adding a multi-class reward may incite players to try pushing another class. Another idea which might help is to make specialization-specific rating. That way a player can push all three ratings. It might help spice up the variety in the bracket too.

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This would be a fantastic idea. I always wish they did something like this

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Good evening Council!

With my council membership potentially at its end considering it’s January 31, 2023, I wanted to bring awareness to one of my topics I felt passionately about again for the new Council members to review and hopefully spark greater discussion. I hope the new councilmembers have a few solid rankers who can extrapolate on this dilemma. I’m sure there are a lot more players who will become aware of this dilemma at the end of the season with Solo Shuffle bringing in different players to the top of the bracket seasonal reward titles. As a result, I felt the need to re-highlight this post for discussion (potentially among the new members). I know WorldPvP and I have conducted most of the competitive PvP discussions on the Council forums so I hope new perspectives and feedback will be provided by the new councilmembers. Please feel free to direct message me if you need a link to the Spreadsheet containing the background data (You should be able to scroll up in the Discord and find “Mourn” and DM me, or ask one of the applicants who were granted their re-application to connect us). If my re-application is not approved, I just want to say it’s been a true honor and privilege to serve as a Councilmember. Thank you Blizzard for listening to our feedback and making the changes we’ve sought! You’ve done a phenomenal job! :smiley: I look forward to reading the new councilmembers’ thoughts and propositions to ensure this game is the best it can be! :slight_smile:

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Yeah really hope they bring in more people for PvP. We never even got to do a live discussion for PvP or anything with the devs. Looking forward to reading about new things and hearing new feedback. Hopefully they are as critical of the stuff happening right now as we were.

2 Likes