Since early SL, it seems Blizz has gone back and forth between putting either Demo or Destro as the fotm lock spec. Raid Aff is just left wherever it falls for the most part.
I’m getting extremely bored with Demo and will not play Destro with it’s playstyle atm.
Any chance Affliction will ever see A-tier in Raid again, or deity forbid, S-tier for a season?
Maybe a blue can explain why blizz just seems to hate Aff pve raid and push everyone to one of the other two specs if they want to do decent damage for a lock.
Then there’s the m+ scenario where affliction is only good with MDT strat tank pulls that 99% of us will never get to see.
I’m not sure what you’re smoking, but Affliction seems to be doing pretty good in raid so far. Their AoE seems to leave a bit to be desired, but their single target has got them performing fairly well.
The single target is doing pretty good. The AoE seems to be the main issue, feels like the dot spread is clunky on my lock taking to long to really get them to stack up before a raid kills everything. When the dots do get spread my damage takes off into space.
LMAO, Aff single target is pretty poor. It feels like it’s about 20% behind the S tier single target DPS. It’s not like we make up with it in utility, mobility or aoe either. Most of the adds die to the meat grinder before you have a chance to setup your dots. Aff is fine but none of the warlock specs are good, outside of Arcane/Ele all the casters pretty much suck. If Blizzard want’s warlocks to be a turret at least make us do competative damage.
are you sure? im looking at fights like H broodtwister and aff is a good 20-25% behind the other classes. the problem is that aff aoe setup takes too long, and some of these adds are dying sometimes literally in seconds.
for me, this is probably the LEAST mobile version of aff ive ever played. Now that corruption is permanent, and siphon life is no longer a thing (or lifetap), we only have 1 instant cast for movement.
mobility was suppose to be aff’s thing, but even destro and demo have more mobility.
I know my lock on AoE is putting out between 1-5m based on the size of the pull and the CDs I have available. If I have everything up then yeah I jump to the top of the meters damn near uncontested, but without them it sucks pretty hard. As for single target depending on how much I have to move and procs I can get 600-700k, I’m sitting around 590 ilevel currently.
AoE is where I feel the strongest but single target is when I will feel other’s, especially rets/fury starting to eat my lunch, and so far Destro/Demo’s have been able to out DPS me.
All this with a grain of salt this is my first expansion playing a lock and I’m still learning it.
Absolutely. They’re clapping AoE in keys right now.
Brood is a bit different because afflictions AoE profile lives and dies by actually landing their taint and seed in good rapture windows, and that can be difficult on brood when all of the super front-loaded dps classes are clapping the mobs down quickly.
Afflictions AoE setup and execution are global heavy, but it does pump like mad when it all comes together.
The problem with aff between aoe/st is dot application, i.e. vile taint. Some idi0t decided it was a good idea to retain that instead of enhancing soc to apply both corruption and agony.
So, in raids, when your ST, applying agony is a painstaking tab target scenario which is useless bc most adds die b4 it matters. In aoe build, you loose too much st dps from the loss of sing, not to mention taint is on a cd thats too long to hit every wave of mobs, and has to be ground targeted which can have its own issues in a mobile heavy setting.
So, there really isnt a win for aff locks tbh. Unless blizz learns that so many other classes now have multi dot application spells on reasonable cds and allows aff to have that without sacrificing such a large amount of st dmg, it wont matter.
Thing is vile taint isn’t just an agony applicator, it also is its own DoT. While SoC applying agony can help our AoE will still be contrainted by Vile Taint and Soul Rot CDs as without them Malific Rupture simpy does less damage.
Unless the idea is that SoC becomes 3 dot applicator, absolutely broken as it has no CD and us only limited by Soul Shards, I don’t really see how SoC applying agony really fixes the issue. Not only that but when we have our fulls CDs up we absolutely crush AoE to an absurd degree. As strong as it is I don’t see them changing it anytime soon. Its strength is justified by its CDs and how backloaded it is.
The issue with aff is because of 1. Dot app and 2. Ramptime. Ramptime is not nearly as big an issue anymore but dot app is, and its clear with aff’s role in raid.
I hear you when you say vile taint is its own dot and that contributes to MR dmg, which is big, yet i am not advocating for its removal. Vile taint, as a dot is unique enough that it can be just that, an aoe dot. Does it need to be an applicator? No.
It sounds like your worried about having too many applicators and soc being too strong, which is kind of laughable lets be honest.
This is what i suggest:
Remove vile taint as an agony applicator.
Allow soc to apply agony baseline, explosion must hit 2 targets to apply agony.
Place soc on a 10-15 sec cd.
Why does this work?
Allows aff to cleave and to funnel, and yes, even aoe in raids without being hamstringed by clunky application talents and tab targeting.
It provides more open use of vile taint/sing.
It fixes the issues that aff suffers from, which is dot app during aoe/cleave sitations.
It gives soc more of an identity. I loved when soc slapped, it was the best, but blizz ruined it. It hasnt been the same since, and frankly it does almost no dmg so just give it a use.
If need be, have it apply agony at stack 1. Perhaps add it to soulburn so if u do soulburn, it starts agony at stack 4.
Lastly, it puts aff on the same level as other dot classes like shadow priests in regards to dot app.
Choice. If you dont like soc agony app then give choice in the tree to allow ppl to still apply agony via taint, but cut off the soc choice. All i request for that is that they make it so we have the option of casting taint on a target instead of having to target ground and lower the cd to 15 secs. I mean, be honest, taint does not do enough dmg for it to matter and if it did then just tune accordingly.
Right now, vile taint agony app is clunky and horrible to manage with a insanely long cd that requires us to take a bug portion of our st dmg away for simple qol choice. This shouldnt be the case.
Lastly, why is it we struggle to find ways of app agony and its so easy to apply corruption yet its agony that is our primary shard generator. Dont you think thats a bit backwards? I do.
Keep in mind that I’m basing my own viewpoint on raiding right now and not Mythic+. Lock in general requires way too much setup in M+ for me to bother taking it over literally any other class. Obviously some people are making it work if this thread is anything to go by.
Unfortunately at the end of the day we’re armchair developers. Blizzard actually don’t care what the community thinks of the spec; if they did we wouldn’t still have MR-- the same spender the Aff community has wanted gone since it’s inception.
It doesn’t though, you would still be limited by Vile Taints CD in order to max your AoE otherwise you are just getting subpar MR.
Not really you would still save it for AoE if the boss has it and use it on CD when it doesn’t in order to maximize MR damage.
SoC identity is an AoE corruption applicator. It used to just be a massive AoE nuke but it hasn’t been that in a long time.
You are aware every single shadow priest absolutely hates Shadow Crash and has been begging blizzard ever since it was reworked as a DoT applicator to change it because of hiw bad and clunky it is right? This is like being on crutches for a spranded ankled and asking to be made a paraplegic thinking it would make things better.
You are very much in a “grass is greener” territory here where you seem to think other classes have it better, and at least the one you mention, I can tell you from experience absolutely does not. Affliction may have some issues and quality of life changes it could ask for, but I don’t see Vile Taint being one of them.
Everything you just said clearly takes nothing of what i said and applies it. Instead you just immediately retorted against it bc you either like using vt or or you think nothing is wrong with aff sot app or you have a personal agenda to push. Either way, your a waste a time.
You are literally the one wanting to change aff to an AoE DoT applicator system to mimic Spriest who has the worst AoE DoT applicator system.
Understand your argument. “VT 30 second CD limits our out ability to get out DoTs, so let’s put all our DoTs onto one ability and give it a CD” because apparently you think that will make our ability to apply DoTs better, it won’t. What you are asking for is literally everything Spriest have been complaining about limiting and making it hard for them to compete with other classes. It makes no sense and when confronted with that reality you covered your ears, threw accusations and claimed I wasn’t listening.
My preferred class is not #1 in every possible scenario, somethings like AoE in M+ my preferred class is not even middle of the pack. I know I know everyone can’t be #1, but still, me fist, that’s all that matters is my preferred class.
This is what I basically keep hearing from multiple classes.
No, you didnt hear what i said.
I said have dot app similar to shad priest, that does not mean the SAME as shad priest. Vocabulary matters. The problem with both specs is that they both have the same clunky system of dot app right now. Both are ground target. Both have long cds. Shad priest have a long flight time and we have a cast time.
What i was proposing was to get rid of the clunkiness. Get rid of the ground target. Get rid of the long cds. Allow aff to have a mass dot app available for every pull instead of every other or 3rd pull. Get rid of the horrendous tab targeting bs. Be able to focus on boss and when adds spawn around it, cast soc, then taint, cds, spam MR without having to target anything other than the boss. Aoe pulls start with soc instead of tab target every other pull.
Let me be clear. Taint = shadow crash.
Difference between similiar and same
Preferred notion of mass dot app, in a streamlined way.
Getting away from ground targeted, long cd clunky systems.
Got it?
Ah so you want all complexity removed and to be able to AoE everything to death on command at all times while never having to worry about switching targets.
IE you want the spec dumbed down to be braindead and effortless. I’ll pass. I’m fine to find a middle ground between a clunky delivery system, and in a braindead spec that plays itself with minimal input and effort from the player.
I’ll also add that having experienced both Vile Taint is significantly better than Shadow Crash as you can choose when to stop casting vs hoping the enemy you threw it at is still surrounded by others by the time the slow projectile lands. Comparing them really only goes to show how little experience you actually have with shadows multidoting mechanics. Play shadow for a while and you will be singing afflictions praises.
Ah, the typical misinterpretion that streamlining = dumbing down. That making changes causing the spec to make sense is somehow making it worse. Having skill in playing the spec doesnt revolve around around being forced to make the best of a bad situation with a clunkly dot app talent. Its min/maxing by perfecting rotation, using spells in the right situation, and modifying your rotation to the environment and still being able to pick up where you need to be. It has NOTHING to do with being forced to use a clunkly dot app vile taint. Quit pigeon-holing people into a terrible playstyle.
As for shadow, yes crash is terrible, but so is taint. Both are clunky. Both have their downfalls. Both are forced upon their specs. The only reason why shadow crash feels worse is bc of its travel time. Thats it. Having to stop and cast taint while your m+ continues to move just so you can get agony up for soul shards feels nearly as bad as watching mobs move out of crash’s area (yes, ive played shadow priest.)
Quit trying to hype up taint like its this catch all fix thats so much better then crash. Its not. Not by a mile. They are both very very similiar and both very bad.