For me deleting the verbal drama (groups can induce on other players).
Sure. That is sorta my point.
We are making a sweeping generalization of raiding here.
I firmly believe you can casually do m+ at 10s and higher.
I firmly believe you can mythic raid casually.
If one does not want to raid or participate in 10s or higher in m+, that is completely fine. There is nothing against that.
But, to me, it seems like casuals are the new elitists. Trying very hard to exclude anyone that does anything they donât.
The problem with your fixes are they are the same dumb things people suggest all the time, but it doesnât really matter. Hardcore players that like to do hard content still will want harder content. A casual player can very easily do a normal / heroic raid. Mythic raids arenât required in any shape or form.
Probably one of the most vocal things I see casuals say they want is âeasier mythic plus so I can get my score upâ yet they donât understand how dumb this is. If all levels of keys were made easier, you didnât lessen the gap between you and a hardcore player, you just made it all relative. Now instead of hardcore players pushing 18,19,20 keys, they just do 22,23,24 keys cause itâs the same relative difficulty.
And this whole argument with âthere needs to be an end to gearingâ just flat out misses the mark on what makes an MMO an MMO. Sure that sounds fine on paper, but how do I grow my character now? Does that really keep people coming back month after month, or do you personally just wanna feel strong and beat up some trivial world quests for a week then get bored and unsub?
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I just want to point out that if this was true Raider io would not be a thing.
That would mean any player can casualy join your mythic raid and have no fear of getting the boot.
What? How does that even make sense? You can get a high raiderIO casually.
RaiderIO has no connection to being casual or hardcore.
Wow is super casual friendly right now. Iâm not sure how you want it to be even more casual friendly.
You can get HEROIC RAID LEVEL GEAR just for doing a few WQs. Thatâs ultra casualâŚ
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Wait your argument is that because raiderio exists you canât casually do the content? Thatâs gotta be the most intellectually vacuous statement I think Iâve ever read in my life.
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All of your bullet points basically prove that the game is much more casual friendly then you give credit for. Just about every system is casual friendly, with just enough of an element for the challenge seeking crowd.
Thereâs no system that doesnât make end game mandatory for the casual players, but does give them a goal to work towards just in case they wish to try.
As for hardcore players being offended, I doubt they care what gear I have.
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You need to know the fights on harder content. That takes time, research, networking, and other things. That is not entirley casual.
No. I like R IO. Just pointing out if harder content was so casual no one would use it to help form groups
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Oh but they do get offended with casual encountered gearâŚThe complain about it a least once a week.
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Not nearly the time you are implying. The m+ fights donât change. You run em on 0 they boss fights are the same at 10. Affixes are the only thing that change.
You can still learn them, just more slower.
normally i would care about wows end game at all because i dont dont,lfr or raids i mostly do bgs for pvp.but in bga with how bad class design is and bgs feels useless to do i have never been more bored.btw im a ilvl 394 bm hunter and i dont care if a raider is 415.
wod at least had good pvp with vendors and good class design compared to bfa.i can live with a bad expac if the pvp is and class design are good but bfa is just plain bad and boring.
So to you the definition of casual is âliterally 0 metrics being applied to anyone in the group, my cat can walk across my keyboard and finish this dungeonâ?
I guess Iâd thats your definition of casual I canât really argue against that, itâs just a really dumb definition
LOL!!! I feel like you just tring to hate. I would not consider a Rated pvper, mythic raider, or mythic 10+ runners âcasualâ. Nno matter the amout of time they play.
Would you?
Because most of the âcasualâ vs"elitest" agruments are based around content played not time playing.
This is my observation of the community opinion.
I would like to know what âcasualâ means to you.
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Itâs like whatever suits your needs. If they arenât being met this is not the game for you. Iâm not trying to be snarky just a reality check.
I saw this in another thread and I think it needs to be added here. Its not an exact quote, just a basic concept and adding my own information.
In EQ, leveling was hard. Death was painful. You really needed to group for most characters to level. Combat was slow and not just IN combat. Time between pulls was slow. So leveling was hard.
In early EQ, raiding was eaiser in relation to leveling. Not a big gap between the two. Raiding has a LEVEL RANGE (like early WoW was going to have). THats right, you can take below max level characters on a raid. You can raid with less than the maximum number of players. Yeah you can take 72 players, but you can clear trash with much less. You could raid as a Mage in newbie armor - no gearscore.
So why am I saying this? I just want to point out the flaw in WoWâs design. In WoW, I can level to cap solo. Classic was harder, yet still much easier than EQ. The gap between leveling and dungeons/raiding in WoW is MUCH further apart than EQ. In EQ if you could hit max level, you could raid. Because bodies (and class choice) mattered more than having the perfect 10 people on top of their game to complete.
By making leveling extremely easy than having a BIG jump to other end game content is part of what is causing these discussions. WoW could lower the raiding requirements (They will not). No LFR is not as easy as people on here claim. Its not walk in and get handed free loot. You could have 100 characters at max level and know the game and your role and still fail in the easiest levels of endgame. With a full group of similar people. In EQ, if you could pull, tank, cc, dps or heal in the group game, you could easily do the same thing in a raid. In WoW, the player has to learn a bunch so new twitch skills that are NOT needed leveling in order to survive WoWâs endgame.
The rift between the players who can / have mastered those twitch skills and those who cant / havnât just gets bigger. The playerbase than turns on each other saying get gud or why cant I come along.
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I think itâs safe to say that i disagree with the majority of the OPâs post.
I never played EQ I used it as a hit point because it seemed to be the biggest thing going on until WoW back in 2004.
I mean thatâs my point, the definition is not tied to what you are doing, and itâs relative. I have tons of friends that play like 2-4 hours a week, knock out some 15 keys, and thatâs it. They think of themselves as casual players.
The difference here is they are not whining to have the entire structure of the game change purely around what they do and what they perceive as hardcore
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