Push Your Own Key – My Resilient Story, feedback on resilient system

Community General Discussion
1

Hey, I’m making this post because I love Mythic+ and just wish I could play it more.

This isn’t a post asking for M+ nerfs or complaining about class balance. It’s more about how we could make it easier—at least in my opinion—for players like me to participate more often.

I play a spec that rarely gets invited to keys, and that’s fine—I’ve accepted that I need to push my own key. But last season, that was incredibly frustrating. I’d post my key, say a +13 GB, and feel super stressed about failing it. That key was often my only shot at doing relevant content for my io. If I bricked it, the time needed to get back to that level could be more than I had to play.

So, I was genuinely happy to see the Resilient Key system added. And honestly, it’s helped. I’ve managed to time all +14s and am currently the 5th US Preservation Evoker (nothing big nobody really plays this spec). But still, I spend way more time running keys below my progression level than I do playing relevant content. I’ve completed tons of runs that gave me nothing—except the chance to roll a key I could actually use. My pugs have definitely appreciated the Resilient system since I was able to help them time their keys, but for me, it’s starting to feel a bit frustrating.

Why? Because the stress of bricking your key is huge when:

-It’s your only way to climb.

-It can take 30 minutes to 2 hours just to get back to where you were even on a key you’ve already timed.

Have talk to a lot of people on that subject, lots of them don’t understand why keys deplete anymore some whish you could run m+ as you run greater rift in D3. But before asking for a new system, I think only one small change would make a huge difference:

If your key is Resilient X, it should never drop below X+1.

That simple tweak would help specs that struggle to get invited make progress, as they will be almost always able to do relevant keys with their own. It would also expand the pool of available keys for the community, which benefits everyone.

Some people might say:

“You’ll just keep repeating your key until you succeed—and that’s lame.”

Well, guess what? That’s already happening. I’ve had to rerun the same key I already timed, over and over, with dozens of different groups—just hoping to roll a relevant one.

The last solution is to find a team a run with them, but it’s not easy, not accessible depend on your game time your work time your partner time your baby time…

I’m just a Preservation Evoker who wants to play more and that would help me, hopefully would also benefit others.

16 Likes
2

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: stop blind pugging, you don’t have to join a set team, or even a guild, just join an m+ community. You’ll find better players, less toxic behavior, etc.

2 Likes
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Yeah, it’s great that keys don’t deplete at +12. I’m also glad they deplete at +11 or under. Sucks to suck.

Which one do you belong to? Been curious to check them out.

4

I think depletion is healthy for the key economy, but they could add 3 charges to a key to give you a more reasonable chance to have a successful attempt. Would solve a lot of issues with depleting because someone dc once too.

1 Like
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Thing is i listed my own keys from BFA S3 to DF S3, and people look to see if your spec is meta or not, if its for lower keys people dont care, dps will always join , but tanks and healers are picky even if its your key

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I don’t but in the past I’ve used wow made easy

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Sorry for wall of text:

I agree in the short term it might decrease availability of certain levels of keys. But there would be much more participation in keys 10+ which is the “relevant” m+ content for most. A better solution in my head would be allowing you to select your key level & dungeon then unlocking the next level of keys once you complete all of that level (all 14s unlocks 15, but you can target any 14 dungeon anytime you want). To me something similar to D3’s greater rifts.

Anything under 10’s from what I’ve seen are either people gearing (mains/alts), crest farming, or less skilled/more casual players pushing/getting vault slots. There are likely more scenarios but I’m just not exposed to them. I think there will always be a population for those key levels regardless. But, for those pushing higher keys, they’re more likely to be bricked. Having to waste time running the same level key you’ve completed many times just isn’t respectful of players time. In my experience with friends, that’s a big reason people stop playing a season. The raid argument makes the most sense to me, players can try the same raid boss over and over with relatively no recourse. Sure you have to re-clear once a week, but you can also extend your lockout. Why not allow the same type of behavior for m+? I feel like way more people would play and continue playing if they just didn’t decrease at all.

Another reason I think not bricking is a good idea is simply learning a key. Think of how many players would break the 9 to 10 or 11 to 12 threshold if they were able to form groups to learn keys without having to run the same 11s over and over. That alone would largely increase players skill levels and key population. It would encourage more non-meta classes, more consistent groups, and more actual playtime from players.

At the end of the day it’s a game. People want to feel rewarded and like their time was well spent on something fun. Keys are fun in general but man sitting in queue sucks. I just completed all my 15s and love doing keys, but finding consistent players and trying to pug into keys as “non-meta” classes really sucks.

1 Like
8

It’s already easier.

Or you could make friends.

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Here’s from another discussion about the same topic:

If we’re to develop resilient keys further, I think this is what it should be about. It allows for alt gearing to some extent whilst pushing, and doesn’t kill lower keys entirely. For key economy I truly do believe charges are better, othervise the first couple of key levels where the new resilient system kicks in will be dead after a few weeks, but this is something I can sort of see working. If we absolutely MUST have resilient keys, this is somewhere along the line of how I think they should function.

10

I partially agree with this and like the idea. But, I don’t believe making all keys resilient will kill decrease the amount of lower keys. Just looking at patch 11.0.2 as an example, there were well over 15 million keys completed from levels 2-10, while less than 800,000 were completed on anything 11 or up.

I think the focus should be on getting more players, classes specifically, into higher keys with little recourse to the player. If you fail a key at any point, you’ve already wasted 5 to 30 minutes of your time assembling the group and failing the key at any point. Then you’ve gotta push a lower key you’ve completed back up, that’s another 30 minutes minimum. I don’t understand while people say there should be more punishments for failing a key. Raiders are able to spam bosses, why should it be different in M+? It’s a game, the point is having fun. When people queue for 30 minutes, or push their own key just to have it bricked by them or others it’s just not fun

11

Absolutely not.

This system is to prevent people from spamming keys they cannot hope to time.

Split off fort / tyrannical again. This does wonders for invites, and gives variety week to week.

12

I think we should try it out for a season or two. Swap the “penalty” away from lowering the key and instead just don’t give loot/completion. Just have every mob in the instance despawn when the timer completes.

Failing to time does need to have a penalty, though. Maybe there are other options, but I think we could experiment with it. I love resilient keys, personally.

1 Like
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This is going to make the gear phase more fun, but be unwelcome for chasing title.

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Why does there need to be another penalty? It’s a time trial, if you fail the trial you’ve already wasted your time. That’s penalty enough in my opinion

I don’t agree with this, if you’ve timed all 14s, you have a chance of timing a 15. Same with every other key level. It’s a group based competitve mode, completing the key isn’t always in your hands so you shouldn’t be harshly punished for every failure. The jump from 11 to 12 would be the biggest supporter of that statement as players struggling with 11s will struggle way more with that jump. In my opinion, the worst case (other than key economy) for the X+1 situation is title becomes harder to get. Which seems like what people want based on the desire for penalties. The best players will push higher and higher keys since they will be able to beat them to death and learn every nuance until they’re timed inflating the required io to get title. And the above might not even be true, maybe X+1 encourages more people to stay grouped and everyones io is inflated and it evens out. Who really knows without trying it

What other time trial game similar to M+ drops you down every time you fail? The closest games I can think is Warhammer 40k: Darktide’s havoc system which only drops you down after 3 failures of your highest difficulty

2 Likes
15

If someone lucked into a once in a lifetime group and got carried, they do not have a chance to time a 15.

Score is worth less, but easier to get, so it doesn’t really matter.

Like the only thing relevant above rewards, is relative to what others are able to accomplish.

1 Like
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How would that affect X+1? They would still need to time all 14s in order to unlock resilient 15s with that strategy. Sure they could luck into all 8 14s and time them, but at what point is it actually luck if they’ve time all 14s? Boosting would be easier and potentially a bigger issue, but boosting is rampant right now regardless.

Right and the people completing 19s now with X+1 would be doing 20s or 21s. People doing 15s might start doing 16s or 17s. It will naturally inflate everyone but that inflation can be resolved with tuning if they want to reduce the range of keys available. The main benefit I see of X+1 is a bigger pool of players in those higher keys. More players = more skill variance but at a certain point you’ll start getting consistently good players regardless

17

The keys shouldn’t drop end of story. It’s ridiculously punishing in pugs

2 Likes
18

No, if things are easier to achieve, player skill decreases because higher skilled players move upwards.

19

100% agree which happens now already, as it does in all content. That’s one reason why I think bricking key’s for the overall key economy is a bad argument. I could say that’s essentially allowing players to get carried. If you’ve got X+1 the more skilled players are always at a higher key so there’s less chance of being carried by a better player

20

No, it’s rather changing where skilled players reside. It’s not allowing easier carries.

No depletion would be easier to get carried because you can just go into yet another group.