I just did. I gave two examples out of the many, many threads that have been posted out of frustration with this topic. You can say all you like that the system is fine as is, but it’s very much not, as evidenced by the many key holders getting burned. I’m not necessarily advocating for a 7 day deserter debuff or whatever. But I would like to see something changed where the key holder is not the one who is penalized.
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Just don’t make bad groups. Out of all the M+ I’ve done this entire expansion so far I myself have only left 3 groups that were beyond terrible and untimeable. I’ve only had 2 people leave the groups I’ve been in as well. Out of over a 100 keys that’s 5.
When you make a group its basically an unwritten rule that you can leave if you feel like it’s impossible to time the key. The only exception is groups that specifically say “completion” which I never join out of respect for honesty.
You’re not on topic though. You’re just making up things to make key leavers seem more reasonable. 95% of the time they are leaving keys out of shame, rage, or because they have no interest in anything except improving their own score.
As an example here’s a streamer video (metrohaha) in a +18 where the mage in the group left the group on the 2nd trash pack because he died to erupting darkness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmnSWInDaR8
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You aren’t everyone though. There are plenty of people who will leave a group after a single death. Or before the first boss if it’s looking to them like the run they were in won’t beat their previous best score for that dungeon.
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Topics in the OP and most of my posts are responding directly to things the OP has brought up. You all are making about leavers more broadly.
For this thread, I’m trying a tactic of actually confronting the person who has the bad take directly and ignore the general babble these threads are usually full of.
Luckily for us, Biggums has been an active participant in the thread and didn’t just drop a dumb take and run off like most of the others.
Babbling about your wife falling in the shower isn’t on topic with anything. Maybe things like that are the reason for 1 leaver in 10,000 and it’s dishonest to pretend otherwise.
In the case of someone random afking then leaving after a 3m afk. Did you not read anything?
Also, from op, 7 day bans. 1:10,000 gets a 7 day m+ ban for that. I’m sorry you can’t understand applied logic. If you don’t know what’s going on, you can’t assume it’s malicious.
Furthermore, I was merely pointing out situations beyond ones control that wouldn’t be planned on since op thinks the if you join a key, you’re married to him for the duration regardless, under punishment of a 7 day ban.
Obviously I don’t agree with bans but you’re still being disingenuous by pretending that leaving is due to RL emergencies.
All of the reasons you applying also apply to the random dungeon deserter debuff. If you left a group because your wife caught fire you still get the deserter debuff, and it’s not like your life ended because of it.
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For this thread, I’m trying a tactic of actually confronting the person who has the bad take directly and ignore the general babble these threads are usually full of.
Good tatic.
Luckily for us, Biggums has been an active participant in the thread and didn’t just drop a dumb take and run off like most of the others.
People that run off can’t have a discussion and shouldn’t be on the forums in the first place.
Also, from op, 7 day bans.
I said in some replies that it doesn’t have to be that harsh and I implied that it would only be a ban / lockout from running anymore mythic related content for the duration. I even said a leave debuff would be fine.
Furthermore, I was merely pointing out situations beyond ones control that wouldn’t be planned
I get there are cases like that. You make it seem like 100% of the time it’s that. Which like Aewendil said, it’s more or less 1 out of every 10,000. I know you don’t speak for everyone, but how many times have you had something like that happen to you during a Mythic Sackalack? For me it’s been none out of all the keys I’ve run.
Don’t know if it’s true or not and correct me If I’m wrong, but Mythic is NOT casual content. It’s for players that want not only want to push to become better at the game, but also to become better at their class as well. I think casuals are only doing Mythic + for gear upgrades which is fine. Who doesn’t want better gear? But there’s a fine line between progressing and leaving when you don’t like something or something doesn’t go your way.
The question I have to those who advocate punishing leavers, is just how long a person is supposed to stay in a failed key? If we were to ask old Rastlin, he would say we should all stay until every person agrees to end the key, even if this 35 minute dungeon is on hour six.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m rarely the first person to leave a failed key. I can think of two separate occasions I just up and left a key in progress, and both of those times it was due to massive toxicity from the other players in the group. Which brings up another potential issue with this idea. If a player is receiving verbal abuse from other players, should that player be punished for leaving and finding a different group?
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Do you get a deserter debuff if you leave a random group for that reason? There’s your answer.
Leaving a group because of abuse is still leaving. You could just as easily put the player on ignore and not punish the keyholder for accidentally inviting an idiot. And I’ve seen people leave a group because of “abuse” when they weren’t being abused at all, but were being explained mechanics that they failed. Some people are just extremely sensitive and can’t handle criticism at all.
The only “punishment” I think there should be is a cosmetic debuff that alerts others that you left. Then future groups could decide whether or not to take you based on that information.
It wouldn’t solve the problem of leavers but it would at least prevent the most egregious offenders from joining and leaving dozens of keys a day.
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Not if you’ve killed at least one boss. Do you think the punishment crowd would satisfied if punishments were only applied for leaving before the first boss?
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The only “punishment” I think there should be is a cosmetic debuff that alerts others that you left.
Even better. Would you want it to stack?
I stated multiple times that you can’t prove its not so it has equal weight when assuming what happened to specifically someone who randomly afks then drops. I’ve been very specific. The guy who leaves after saying something is leaving for a different reason. The person who leaves after a wipe is leaving for a different reason.
Based exclusively on your post, the runs were going fine, good pace, no wipes, generally satisfied with everyone’s play. Who leaves that without saying something? A guy once told the group his dog ate something it shouldn’t and left. Probably false, but I can’t prove that.
I’m opposed to all punishment for leaving because the framework of such a penalty comes with a ton of rules or abuse.
Which is the only thing worth doing in the game. So because I’m being harassed about my route until I leave, I should be a maw/mount farmer for x amount of time?
Id say that certain key levels are casual. 2 is +0% adds a times and a minor hp/damage buff through fort/tyr.
Don’t worry, I read the rest, but this is the main issue. There are 2 communities (at least) that run m+ and you’ve identified both. Whichever group you belong to, you have to avoid the other when building your group. There’s a subset of the push players who only ever do keys they need for io and leave as soon as it won’t reach that end.
They show up on io as 1400 with 10 keys timed above 15 (or whatever). The way to find the group members most likely to stay til the finish is finding the players who find m+ fun. That’s listed as # of keys timed in the bracket. If someone has topped out at 16, but has 100+ runs timed above 15, you can safely assume they are decent and are likely vault running or just enjoy the key system.
But this goes back to being more diligent with group building. I caused 2 wipes because of flat out stupidity last week in my 16 spires and no one left. I had players with 60+ runs in the bracket and we still timed that key after I yanked my head from my rear end.
You should get a debuff that lets other groups know you left.
Being precious and leaving because you can’t handle criticism is still leaving. Your reasons are irrelevant.
Wow, this thread has certainly taken some twists.
Sadly there is no system that is going to work how you seem to want. If a punishment system comes, it will get abused. We’ve seen this happen in lots of content where it is in play. Worse, you can’t just punish someone when you have no proof.
What you all fail to realize is that M+ is not designed for PUGs. Again, I am not trying to sound elitist. The whole point of M+ content is to test yourself with harder and harder challenges. M+ was designed with teams and guilds in mind. People that can work like a well oiled machine, that have solid communications and TRUST. If you have to use the dungeon tool to find people, fine. Just know that you maybe taking a risk, (no matter what ilvl, R-IO, titles, class, or car they have). So do yourselves a favor, find or make a team. Join a guild, whatever. It will really make things a lot easier.
If you want content that is designed for PUGs, look at LFR or normal dungeons. That stuff is designed for PUGs. That is where I’ve seen a lot more toxic behavior, mainly due to the fact that people are so replaceable. No one cares who you are, no one remembers who you are. You were just a body that joined the group and left. Win or Lose, they don’t care. That kind of attitude is what is really killing the game. Not everyone is a good player, which is fine. Just do not expect to be able to fly through all the content and get all the rewards. The higher rewards are some what locked behind the higher challenges. Right now, the only thing that I see as a reward in this game is performing well and killing bosses, timing keys, etc. I surround myself with like minded players, push harder and harder content. Gear helps, but I get more satisfaction out timing a key with my team, then I ever do opening the great vault RNG box.
I want the player to be able to stand out, be remembered. Not disposable. Every key or raid, or group I go into, I always do my best. I don’t want to just be some random warrior that got PUG’d in. In order to do that, you can’t just be another number, or class, or whatever. You need to show that you can do it. I’d rather have people see me join a group/raid and be like, “Oh sh*t, Osa, she’s a hell of a dps,” then “A warrior, good we have battle shout.”
TL:DR - Stop trying to PUG high M+, find a team/guild/community.
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The random dungeon finder seems to have no problem with this issue. It doesn’t care why you left, only that you left.
What you all fail to realize is that M+ is not designed for PUGs. Again, I am not trying to sound elitist. The whole point of M+ content is to test yourself with harder and harder challenges. M+ was designed with teams and guilds in mind.
If you exclusively play the game with friends and guildmates then a cosmetic deserter debuff is meaningless to you.
Which is fine, because the “punishment” is nothing compared to some of the things that have been pushed for in this thread.
Cute, you have no idea the types of things that take place in keys, clearly.
P. S. When I get tired of it, I right click/remove. The amount of people who get invited and kicked before the key goes in would shock you.
I have plenty idea, I just ignore people rather than leaving because I don’t see the point of punishing the keyholder for the act of a stranger.
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