Play with people you know and talk to pugs to make them people you know.
I honestly dont know when the last time I had someone leave a key was and I do a lot of keys. like a lot.
Its an mmo social interaction is a major part of it.
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Although kind of not a great solution, still the best one. Unfortunately with all of the que systems and multiple difficulty levels, making new wow friends who are on when you are on and want to do the same level of content as you is as harder as it has ever been. Being social is how this isn’t an issue for you anymore but the most of the player base doesn’t seem all that interested in being social anymore.
Most of the interactions I’ve seen have not been friendly. People don’t help each other out in the open world as much and not much communication except the memes. I’ve actually held myself back in this expansion with mythic plus because it’s a headache that I don’t want to endure. Look at the simple interaction on this forum. You say one thing and met with disrespect. How can you have open discussion and dialog if all people are doing is attacking one another?
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I’ve given it in hundreds of these threads over the years. M+ is “at risk” content, meaning there is a chance of failure. Accept that not every run will succeed and get over it. Run with people you know to try to mitigate that, or pug and understand that some of the pugs will be bad. You can vet people more thoroughly and talk to the people you invite to make sure their goals align with yours.
I ran 7 different Necrotic Wake pugs last week with people who couldn’t do simple boss mechanics, and 3 Spires of Ascension pugs with the same issues. I didn’t come crying to the forums about it (except as a demonstration of why leaving isn’t a problem). I just joined the next group and tried again. If people leave your keys, just join the next group and try again.
The issue is you’re trying to find a “solution” to something that isn’t a problem. It’s just the way things work when you do challenging content with randoms. The solution is to understand what you’re doing before you start and that it has a low chance of success unless you do things to increase your odds. Like running with friends or very thoroughly vetting the strangers.
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Idk but my experience in game doesn’t resemble what you and others on the forum are telling me.
In the last week I added 3 people to btag and have been keying with them most days.
I’ll agree that in the open world people just ignore each other but that’s because there isn’t really anything that needs communication to achieve. The vast majority of the time people simply xo exists without interacting but I find that if I do talk to someone then most of the time the interaction is pleasant.
Idk maybe I’m just lucky but I tguvj u spend too many hours to have been that lucky. Maybe it’s a server thing or something? Idk but my experience is very different.
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I don’t disagree with you, also I didn’t start this thread, merely posted in it. I don’t really agree with punishing people from leaving the group out of frustration. I get that there is a chance for failure and is not guaranteed. The problem I’ve seen is people aren’t willing to give the run a chance if they see it will be a close to the timer or possibly fail. Sometimes people don’t know the mechanics as well or forget a step, but can adapt if you remind them.
Most of the content isn’t hard in M+ but the elitist mentality of you guys suck, I’m out, in pugs is what I believe this thread to be about and in their frustration the OP is heavy handed in punishment for their perceived crime.
The overall mentality of WoW players as a whole, (not everyone of course) has a very toxic mindset. What can others do for me, in group related content. If they can’t do x, they are trash, I’m out, instead of actually working together and helping that person succeed as well or help them to gain the tools to do so, but no it’s very ego centric. I mean we have a rating score built into the game and mods etc. that can discourage newer players to even participate in that content.
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I’m fine with that in lower keys. But in an 18 I shouldn’t have to talk people through basic boss mechanics. Although in the last 3 of the Wakes, I started asking if people knew how to handle Comet Storm, so I could talk them through it if necessary, and they all said yes. So…
An even bigger issue is the disconnect for the different reasons people run keys. In the past, I only did 1-4 per week to get a vault slot or two, but I understand that some people really cared about rating. This season I’m pushing to go a lot higher than I have in the past, and there are many keys that have nothing for me if they don’t time. I still tend to finish if the group stays together because I also understand that some people just need the completion.
But it is unreasonable to expect or demand someone to stay in a key when the only reason they were there was the rating points it would earn for being in time. People need to recognize and accept that people play the game for different reasons, and if you’re going to throw a fit about someone leaving a bad key, then you need to make sure you’re taking the time to invite 4 other people who also prioritize finishing.
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Not false, but you’re just one story of many. Leavers are also trolls, baddies, and entitled players themselves. Some people self admitted (who even defend leaving, to noone’s surprose) they left out of embarrassment. Those are not players I want in my group either. If you think something needs to be done about bad players, then it’ll involve leavers too. I do have to question your judgement of joining a group in 17 or 18 with such bad players though. If the answer to people’s complaining about leavers is “get friends” then that should apply to you too.
Literally nobody is saying this. People, like myself, do however think it’s messed up that in current system your time is the only valuable one.
The crux of the issue, and really the main reason why threads like this keep coming up and will never go away, is the fact that there’s asymmetrical punishment. The leaver is the only one who’s time is valuable. They decide when the group ends. They hold the entire group hostage, and they can brick it at any given time, moment, any where. It can be after 3rd boss, it can be towards the last boss, it can be at the very beginning. They run as much as they want. They will end whenever they want. And it is not always the case of “group bad, me leave.” If anything, depending on how often y’all defend the practice I’m starting to question if you guys are the common denominators instead. Leavers can, and often times are, bad themselves.
Having said all that, YOUR time is in fact not more valuable and should not be more valuable than anybody else’s. Pointing that out and wanting changes to equalize the punishment is not degrading the value of your time, it’s only equalizing it with the rest of the group.
So long as this asymmetry exists, threads like these will continue.
Literally who says you can’t leave? OP’s post even directly implies you should have a right to leave, just be punished for it, which is more than fair. Don’t join keys you don’t wanna do. I would also ask for a system to help the leader know who the leavers are at the least, but I already know y’all will complain because y’all won’t be able to find groups.
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Don’t join keys you don’t wanna do.
I signed up to time keys, not “do” them.
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sorry, i thought it was clear here that i meant “can’t, without being punished”. my question stands: if it’s not okay for a group to be charity for me (which i 100% agree with), why is it okay that it be charity for the guy who doesn’t know his rotation, won’t kill explosives, won’t interrupt or purge/soothe, can’t get out of mechanics, pulls extra stuff constantly, etc.?
what’s the rationale behind “if you play somewhat decently, you’re expected to complete keys without complaint because it’s not a charity. if you don’t, you’re entitled to have people stay in your groups under threat of punishment, so they can get gear for you”?
i basically never leave groups but sure
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except it’s not.
I had a group yesterday, 16 streets. the mage in the group was such an idiot.
first boss: gets his weapon stolen, and he ran around like a moron following the boss… punching it. literally. then he died and goes “lag”
Postman boss, he doesn’t do a single box delivery, doesn’t stand in a single group soak, when he gets the group soak, he doesn’t move into the group, stands there and dies.
that’s just two examples - his play through the entire dungeon was next level awful, and h was almost 2.5k io nor did his score appear to have been purchased.
last boss - and by this time we were over time, mind you - the dude straight up runs into not one, not two, but THREE rings before the healer finally gives up and he dies.
and you’re telling me I should be punished if I had chosen to leave that group?
get real. NO punishments should go out for people who leave keys as long as we’re not punishing the garbage level play that leads to people leaving keys.
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Is is sort of weird how the punishment of failure only goes to the keyholder.
Doing solo runs in older content was far more punishing like visions, you lost your key, lost progress to your legendary and had to refarm they key to get in.
But I guess group content is just less punishing overall.
the keyholder also gets the lion’s share of the reward. They keep the improved key.
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And any person who didnt get a key gets a similar ilvl one too if you skip a week or start fresh on an alt.
But only they have to regrind the key if someone chooses to leave. Everyone else gets out skot free relatively. Maybe they waste some time. Keyholder wastes both time and gets negative progression.
and how many people skip a week lol.
You can also do this by not checking your vault loot thus not getting your key.
I don’t actually think this, I just put it out there as a counterpoint to the “punish the leavers” crowd. It’s a more complex issue than “someone left a key and that was wrong”.
It does apply to me, but please try to find the thread I started saying something needs to be done about people in +15 and higher keys not knowing basic mechanics? My group of regulars got burned out last season and quit the game, so I’m starting from scratch. I’ve been friending good players and looking to get a more regular group and in the meantime I’m pugging.
It was frustrating that I could do all of the hard work getting them to the final boss with plenty of time and for some reason running in a small circle a few times was too challenging. But I understand and accept the risk and don’t throw a tantrum on the forums because bad players played badly. I just queued up for the next key.
Each person has valuable time, and one of the complex issues involved is there are generally two types of players. Those who have time for limited M+ keys and who don’t want to waste time on a key that doesn’t help their vault slot count, and those who have do lots of M+ keys and don’t want to waste time on keys that aren’t going to time.
These players shouldn’t be in groups together and the group leader has the responsibility of making sure that all 5 people are on the same page instead of just assuming that every player shares your priorities or else they are a troll.
I have never left a group while the other 4 people wanted to keep going, even if there was nothing left in it for me. I was happy when people left the trainwrecks I suffered through last week, but I never left first.
But that is a personal choice. No one should be required to stay in a group they don’t want to be in anymore or suffer a penalty.
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A better solution would be to remove the timer and the keystone system and just let you choose the dungeon and difficulty you want to do, that way it is less likely people will leave and if they do it won’t ruin your key, you could just replace them and finish the dungeon.
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look I was lagging ok. Please stop calling me out. It’s embarrassing 
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Make veggies appear in front of them with an older lady that yells if they don’t eat them.