Let me go deeper with my example then, as I made it rather straight forward, but you can also create situations where you do swap for the same content.
So, Boon of the Ascended (Kyrian) would essentially be a default pick, as it is a strong 3min cd that complements well what Discipline does already in raids.
Unholy Nova (Necrolord) shines when there are multiple enemies that you would want to dot instantly, there have been multiple raid bosses in the past where a spell like this would shine, and it will no doubt happen again.
Mindgames (Venthyr) presumably shines when you want to reverse healing from an enemy into damage on itself, and to reverse damage from an enemy into healing on your allies. So the latter situation also makes Mindgames a good default pick since it has a much shorter cooldown than Boon (45s), and the former situation makes it good whenever there would be a boss where there are adds or a boss mechanic that makes the enemies heal themselves.
This would all be in raids, there is build variation (by your personal definition) here.
Yeah, and those 6 healing specs aren’t performing the same on every type of content.
Because it is impossible to properly balance them because they’re different.
That is the point here, you’re saying covenants abilities should be open because blizzard won’t balance them for every type of content, do you want every class to be equal so they all can be balanced for every type of content as well?
You are not designed to be optimal for ALL content. You are supposed to be viable for all content, which you would be regardless of those abilities you listed. Choices are supposed to come with trade-offs. An example would be wanting to be good at melee combat, your character will likely suck at ranged combat then. Wanting to be ideal in large groups (raiding), your character likely will not be as good in small groups(dungeons). Wanting to have that niche specialty that very few will be able to perform, the others will excel at either large or small group play over you. This is what an MMORPG is all about. Making choices that sets your character apart from others in the style that you want. Wanting to be optimal at everything is greedy and I hope Blizzard stands their ground.
Strange, when i check warcraftlogs on top parses for (spec) everyone is using the same talents/essences and gear. Could you please advise me why they are using different talents/gear for mythic plus and pvp?
Not to come off as an elitist but what challenging content in WoW do you currently participate in?
My point about an open system would be it doesn’t punish anyone where as a fixed systems only punishes people pushing challenging content. I’d like to know where your dog in the fight is.
A 100 times this! Do not tie performance to cosmetics and a choice of stories, please.
Why would you even think to do this? It is mind boggling. By the 90’s studies showed how the most important aspect of inhabiting a virtual world was Avatar presentation. That hasn’t changed!
I guess it was just that one guy toiling away on Inscription that finally got it.
Just to specify for the people against this, there would still be some sort of power progression tied to the covenants due to the soulbinds and the signature ability!
Still don’t understand why there are nay-sayers when what they want to preserve will be preserved even if class abilities are untied…
I have to side with Aresia on this. Don’t get me wrong I understand why the Covenant abilities pose a potential problem with people who play at the extreme top end. I really do, but this game has been stripped of almost everything that makes it an MMORPG, hell it’s basically just a MMO now. And while Covenants have put Blizzard between a rock and a hard place, I applaud them for at least attempting to bring back the RPG aspect.
There is also a huge difference in being optimal and being viable. Everything will be viable. But unfortunately for a lot of the people who play at the top end, for some reason if it’s not “optimal”(even if it’s just a 1% difference) then suddenly it’s not viable. Which honestly, to me is kind of degenerate. But it is what it is.
Choice should matter. Strengths and weaknesses, different builds. Different playstyles. Those are good things.
But it’s irrelevant. Even if Blizzard caves in and makes the 4 Covenant abilities a new talent row(with appearances changing based on the Covenant you chose), that wouldn’t be enough. Because then the top end players would scream “But X Soulbind is SOOOOO much better for Y”, effectively putting us in the same situation. Despite all of those being minor passives.
I’m not opposed to the Covenant abilities becoming talents or freely interchangeable but I feel like if we go that route, it’ll devalue the whole premise of Covenants and choice. Games just aren’t fun if everyone can literally do the same things as everyone else. If no one has strengths or weaknesses. Choices and consequences of those choices are a good thing. And again, like I said. Optimal and Viable are very different. If every one is viable for all forms of content, its a win. You don’t have to be optimal in literally every single thing you do.
At least in my opinion. (Also note, like I also mentioned, for the top end, I get the complaints but outside of world firsts, you don’t have to be optimal if you are just going for Cutting Edge, viable works).
My dog in the fight would be I like MMORPGs to actually be RPGs. Choices matter. The reason you bring many different classes to raids is because they each bring something you desire (or should be by design). This game has lost its identity of an RPG. That is my opinion and if you disagree I will not say you are wrong.
Right now I could argue that they should change it to 4 classes, maybe even 3. Tank class, melee dps class, ranged dps class, healer class. If 3 then combine melee and ranged into just dps class. Right now there is no balance in content between classes. Some classes excel while others struggle. Doing away with classes would fix that problem. Yet I do not see people saying class choice keeps me from being optimal and that should be free to change to whatever class you want on the fly. Giving players another choice that affects their power level in different content is a good thing from an RPG point of view. Make the character you want for the content you plan to focus on. If you plan to do different types of content at high level just be aware only 1 of them will you be optimal and the others will just be viable.
Just so we’re clear to everyone watching from the sidelines that’s Aresia admitting she doesn’t do any challenging content but is against the system because of “RPG to be RPG!!”
Apparently she doesn’t know how that is possible without chaining player power behind it.
Choice still matters as I said earlier, and you even talk about it later
This is where I think everyone can compromise and fully agree to leave soulbinds as the main power progression for covenants. Why?
From the first looks on Alpha, they are not that impactful, some traits are even doing absolutely nothing for your character’s performance.
I strongly believe the choice would absolutely matter still. The character progression impact remains through soulbinds and the signature spell, the story impact remains through the unique compaign and sanctum, cosmetic impact remains as we all saw the unique transmogs already, every single element that makes a decision impactful and matter in an RPG is there, even without the class abilities tied to it!
Tell me. How come if you aren’t 100% optimal, then why is it no longer viable? Like I said, I understand the complaints from the extreme top end(IE, vying for world firsts). But if you are just going for Cutting Edge, viable is more than enough.
That’s the entire issue with folks like you. Oh no, X does 99% of the damage that Y does, X is trash! What the hell Bliz, we have no choice!’
Could say the same for you.
Choices should matter. Get over it. If you don’t want choices to matter, then perhaps MMORPG’s aren’t for you. That said, you got so worked up over that one statement, you literally didn’t read anything else.
So again I say
Edit:
I mean, people at the extreme top end are nuts. I’d argue that leveling a couple of the same class is much easier than spam buying every BoE, having 1/2 a dozen classes at max level and geared, some even transferring servers to hoard mats and more BoE’s, etc… What the extreme top end does, is always over the top. But for everyone else? What’s wrong with being viable? Seriously. Just because something isn’t optimal doesn’t mean it’s not viable. But that keeps going over so many of yalls heads.
The issue comes in for wanting RPGs to actually be RPGs comes at the cost of making difficult content. Which they’ve done for multiple expansions now. The game has become too hard to try and cater to decisions like this.
If the result of jumping into a not so favored Covenant is “Yeah but you won’t be able to progress as quickly” then people are going to complain. Especially on the Mythic level. It’s not fair to tackle players who value the gameplay aspect over the RPG elements since well…that’s what the game does as well and think that everyone’s just gonna be okay with it. (Not saying that’s what you’re saying but just speaking in general)
If they wanted to start bringing in more RPG elements, they should’ve started with the core of gameplay and class design. Not bringing in another borrowed power system.
I never discussed my end game challenge or lack there of. It depends on the expansion, my personal life, and how many of my friends are playing. None of that devalues my opinion however. I am saying you should not be asking to be optimal for everything. That is unhealthy for the game. As I stated above, make classes also changeable on the fly same as the current talents and the covenant ability you are talking about. That seems like it would be something you support. I do not know when people got it in their head that they need to be optimal constantly but this is how you kill an RPG. There must always be trade-offs.
