And? Thats why this system was so wildly criticized.
The legion legs were one of the most disliked things about legion early on. It was a failure and they try to do it again.
The acquisition was criticized yeah, but otherwise people seemed to enjoy Legion. I personally quit midway into it but i keep seeing people praise it as the best the game was since Wrath (hard disagree here).
Legion was only good because how bad WoD sucked. But BFA, Legion, and WoD were bad.
1100 posts. Woo what a popular thread.
Hopefully Blizzard will consider the negative reception. I don’t plan on buying Shadowlands until they make changes. I was burnt too hard from buying into BFA’s hype.
7.3 was a lot of fun. It’s part of what makes me hesitant to buy another expansion at launch. We shouldn’t have to wait till the final patches to play through enjoyable systems.
And because of M+. Smashing success.
Yes, exactly what im saying. Once the exclusivity of the legs ceased, the expansion was considered good again. The exclusivity is the problem. Covenants create exclusivity.
q.e.d.
Yeah. I don’t disagree with people here posting that they need to stop catering to the 10%, but I really disagre we need borrowed power.
Classes should be the engine that drives the game, they are the constant through out the whole game.
Honestly I don’t see how anyone can make it to the Ivory Tower in any game company and be oblivious to that fact.
I’m not interested in a massive fumble either. Especially when they have built so many good systems over the years they just neglect. In all honestly I should make a detailed post about why the direction they’re going is flawed.
Yeah, that’s the thing. I dislike borrowed power because of what Blizzard made it. If classes were complete and could stand on their own two feet, and Blizzard threw in a little bit of borrowed power to enhance a class, then I’m easy. That sounds wonderful to me, bring back tier sets to enhance our finished, functioning class.
Yes, exactly what im saying. Once the exclusivity of the legs ceased, the expansion was considered good again. The exclusivity is the problem. Covenants create exclusivity.
q.e.d.
Yep and people went back to blindly following Icy-Veins meta. Which goes back to my point, if no choice is meant to stick, at this point devs need to stop creating wrong choices and just give every classes a static kit.
There’s 0 reasons for Covenant powers/ability to exist if they’re just yet another movable part of your loadout. That gameplay loop is achieved by talents already.
There’s 0 reasons for Covenant powers/ability to exist if they’re just yet another movable part of your loadout. That gameplay loop is achieved by talents already.
I disagree, icy-veins can tell you what’s the best until they’re blue in the face. It’s up to the player to determine what situation icy-veins is referring to when they’re talking about ‘best’. That gives players choice and gives them the opportunity to consider what covenant ability to use for any encounter.
Aye, they decided to make classes incomplete. I also don’t want the hassle of farming extra crap just to be competitive. Gears, Gems, and Enchants were plenty, there’s absolutely no reason to add anymore from that.
All these systems that were awesome that they built, just being half used and glazed over for something really dumb.
And we go back to the “math problem” aspect of the game, specially raiding and specially for DPS players. Healers have a bit more leeway there i’ll admit but for DPS its entirely mathematical. Being a snowflake is just hindering yourself.
Yep and people went back to blindly following Icy-Veins meta.
Yes, we come full circle and covenants are still a bad idea.
Not trying to flame you, but you yourself arent exactly following Icy-Veins meta. How is that so? Why are you hindering yourself? Is it possible that people like to have a choice even if it might not be perfect? Sure there will be a meta, but you can still do what you want and its often fun to just try out different talents or azerite for different encounters which arent really covered by guides (think arenas).
Going to also blatantly steal from the Giga-Thread in the Beta-Forum in case theres someone who still hasnt seen it.
Thread with the most upvotes i have ever seen by miles.
Groups and Guilds will force players to always choose the best covenant ability, while people might not like it.
It seems to be a legitimate argument against the free swap. Players will create meta and will force other players to use what’s best instead of what they want to use.
It is very unfortunate that meta exists and we completely understand the problem of “looking for healer mythic+5 (only MW monk)” and we support the willingness of developers to prevent such situations from happening. Unfortunately, the current system does not aid in solving the problem and only makes it worse.
Since the majority of content presented in the game is relatively easy and does not have restrictions forcing people to follow the meta, it will most likely be accessible for players of any and all covenants. However, if we take a glimpse at the content with the difficulty higher than average, players will prefer to stick to the meta anyway. The problem behind this is not only in the difference of class/spec/covenants efficiency but in players’ perception that the easiest way to achieve their goal is to copy MDI class composition, simply because “these guys definitely know which classes are the best”. The biggest issue is that meta exists anyway, no matter which restrictions players have.
In one of his interviews, Ion Hazzikostas said that it’s not possible to make covenants abilities changeable, because players will force other players to do it every time it makes sense. However, if we don’t misunderstand his point, if Blizzard puts restrictions on changing covenant abilities, players will stop forcing others to use a certain covenant against their will. History proves it’s only partially correct. When Legion expansion came, players didn’t have any control of what legendaries they looted. However, even though nobody could guarantee obtaining best-in-slot legendaries at the start of the expansion, guilds and mythic+ groups, which can’t be considered super hardcore, were always looking for players with a specific legendary for their class (such examples were Demon Hunter ring and Holy Priest cloak).
About half a year ago patch 8.3 launched, introducing corruption effects. Initially, some of these effects were way more powerful than others. It’s fair to say most of us wanted to open the weekly chest and get tier 3 Infinite Stars or Echoing Void in the first weeks of the patch. Even though people didn’t have any control over getting those items, we witnessed a lot of “LF DPS link t3 infinite stars” groups in mythic+ or even heroic Nyalotha raids. It is a case example that even in the situation when players can’t change their powers (legendaries/corruptions), the community still generates meta and predominantly looks for players that have these most efficient powers.
It is possible that your guild will require you to pick a covenant ability which you’re not personally interested in having, just so it helps your group to beat the hardest moment of the fight (e.g. Kil’Jaeden encounter which forced a lot of semi-hardcore or even casual players to roll their characters to goblin to obtain “Rocket Jump” racial ability). As it stands now you wouldn’t be able to get back to the covenant of your choice after switching to the option guild required.
The casual community will not be affected by any variation of the covenant system. The content that they usually do doesn’t have strict requirements for optimizing the character’s efficiency. “Looking for priest (Kyrian only)” type of groups will exist anyway because each covenant will have different efficiency for dungeons, PvP, and raids. With the “free swap” system in place players will at least have a choice. Do they want to join the group that requires them to use Venthyr ability instead of Kyrian, or they maybe want to find another group? Putting restrictions on swapping basically does not let them choose, while still allows groups or guilds to have covenant requirements.
Meta will always exist, and players will self-organize to exploit it anyway. In the end, we will get into a situation where a major part of a specific spec will all use the same covenant, and this choice will be made not by a reason of lore or appearance, but according to the combat effectiveness.
Not trying to flame you, but you yourself arent exactly following Icy-Veins meta. How is that so? Why are you hindering yourself? Is it possible that people like to have a choice even if it might not be perfect? Sure there will be a meta, but you can still do what you want and its often fun to just try out different talents or azerite for different encounters which arent really covered by guides (think arenas).
That’s my PvP setup, that’s as close as the meta as i could get considering i just came back 2 months ago and had to grind like a 100k echoes to catch up (PvE Set, full cloak catch up then PvP set.
Also that’s not the most upvoted thread ever by a mile. You weren’t around when Blizzard tried to enforce RealID on the forums i’ll guess.
I was actually referring to what you used in your raids. But all this just goes to show, theres still lots of reason why people are different. And maybe WoW isnt exactly like Overwatch, even though your talents, azerite and stuff is swappable. We currently have the choice and WoW isnt destroyed by it. Making covenants swappable isnt going to wreck it either. It has to happen.
#dontpulltheripcord
FF14 doesn’t seem to have issues with this. Can literally level every single class to 60 on the same character if you want. Change a variable for every gear slot and suddently your cloth gear is plate.
Wut? Your gear in FF14 doesn’t suddenly turn to another armor type, you literally are carrying around your various pieces lol.
Mighty fine Ripcord you got there, be a shame if someone were to come along and just…pull it.
Kyrian
This is good currently
Vampires
This is bad now, thanks to the increased focus costs.
Night Fae looks hella good in M+
Sure does, but it has an internal ICD and doesn’t work with pet’s damage.
Necrolord would work really well for Survival PvP
Dunno why it should be especially good for surv pvp, it’s currently the best ability because it gives us focus. It is not a good ability in aoe tho and the conduits of the necrolords are thrash apparently.