I don’t have an issue with it, I’ll happily do normal on my character for a few more weeks… I am ilvl 267 and I know I need 3 more ilvl to join Heroic Raids
But why are the expectations on almost every heroic post 270 ilvl and AOTC? As far as gearing is concerned, doesn’t that pretty much make the gear you’d get inconsequential at best? And how do I get AOTC if I can’t join raids to begin with?
Maybe I’m missing something, but…. shouldn’t you raid at gear levels that will help you?
As someone that has lead a PuG recently.
Its because we want it down. There are many Learning groups up all the time, go join those.
No there are not? There is not a single learning group up atm, there are a bunch of raid sellers and then AOTC/270 Ilvl ones lol
https://i.imgur.com/x8mx5IA.jpeg
There are.
Okay, I should re-phrase;
There aren’t a single FRESH learning one up. And 1/mostly competitive is barely “many learning groups”
You do know you can join Competitive groups right? Just do the bare minimum and research the fight.
I got my AOTC on all three raids Pugging. Its not hard.
PuGs don’t want to carry those either unfamilar, or unwilling to do the bare minimum.
It’s why people often don’t take others unless they prove they’ve cleared it already and thus have the knowledge.
Learning groups exist, but yeah the general expectations in PvE is that most are already intimately familiar with the content they are running.
Same in PvP- you’ll get yelled at for not knowing basic stuff, like leaving a base undefended.
Learning in this game is an issue- some folks never did things right to begin with and think they’re better than they are (they could’ve been carried by better teammates, or just playing an easier class), and others are unwilling to even teach.
I am aware, just because I apply does not mean I can join them. I spent four hours last night applying to groups.
I never got a single invite. So….
Gears to easy to get.
Been blind pugging since on a steamdeck mods take up a lot of room. Failed a ten where death strike was roughly 65% of total healing. Group had 21 deaths before the last boss.
Their big complaint was that I wasnt pulling big enough… gear level is the starting point.
Are you gemmed and enchanted?
Do you have better than grey parses on bosses in Normal?
Gemmed and Enchanted, I don’t know I don’t really parse? But I have the recommended gems and enchants, as well as 1 BIS from Archon/Icy Veins.
I tanked for most of normal.
Well, all I can say is make your own group.
It may be your class and spec are trash right now for certain fights. Making a group ensures youll at least get a chance to try.
I could try at that, I’m a prot pally so I could always just make my own group I guess 
Update: I made my own group and we got to Alleria without issues, couldn’t clear Alleria but I got two new pieces of gear and almost clearing is better than nothing!
A reasonable person will certainly think that makes sense (because it does!).
However, the person assembling a PUG has a high expectation of carry-losers that will fail the group. To mitigate that high-risk they have an expectation of only accepting applicants that: a) have already cleared the content (AOTC required); and b) significantly out-gear the content (will carry you the PUG-leader and any other carries you chose to invite intentionally or inadvertently).
You’re only looking at from the perspective of an applicant to a PUG, but it’s an eye-opener to actually assemble a few PUG raids and see how badly it can go if you don’t put unreasonably high filters on the applicants.
You join a guild.
Not a bad suggestion at all.
OP, there are a lot of chill guilds and communities out there who will happily take you with. Just got to find one that you like.
Also:
Read through the whole thread. Congratz on making it to the big ol Alleria! 
Happy for your progress
It’s Sunday. It has always been extremely difficult to find a fresh raid this late in the week going back forever.
Thank you! We just have to perfect the tank swapping bit, it seems that even though we were taunting each other’s targets as we ran to take each other’s Alleria the whole raid would instantly die. Even if they were only close for a second or two.
You’re gonna get a bunch of gaslighters commenting… The truth is, alot of pugs are actually just someone hoping for a carry, especially any group that says “Full clear” but then the RL hasn’t cleared it. They’re gonna take whoever gives them the best chance of success. They don’t have the skills or the desire to analyze the fights and provide any sort of meaningful leadership, so outgearing it is their only chance for success.
Any group with ilvl req’d is almost always set to the RL’s ilvl, they can’t set it higher. They can put it higher in the description, and it’s almost always bait. If the description says 265+ you can bet the RL is maybe 240. Again, just wanting better geared players to carry them. Goes hand in hand with being too low ilvl to get into decent pugs.
AOTC is really just a way of saying they want you to know the fights. Many times it’s just another methodology to attract more geared players than them. Top 5 AOTC groups in the finder right now, only 1 RL actually has it.
Basically you aren’t wrong, but pugs basically expect you to either learn and gear in a guild, or M+ rather than actually grinding the raid content. It’s completely illogical but the majority of the player base just isn’t good enough to linearly farm raids to gear up, so this is how it happens.
