That seems good,it would protect the timelines.
Frankly Blizzard has been too inconsistent with time travel for the notion that something “has” to happen to have any real weight to it. We’ve seen the bronzes change the timeline when it benefits them (bringing back the Blue Dragonflight, retrieving the Dragon Soul so we can kill Deathwing, creating the WOD timeline and eventually allowing the Mag’har to cross over to our timeline) so we know that changing the timeline doesn’t inherently lead to disaster.
Maybe you can argue that the specific cases of letting Alexstrasza escape captivity or not murdering Amber Kearnan for no reason somehow would, but that’s just speculation and the quest itself doesn’t really bother to address it beyond “Just take our word for it”. And even then, the whole butterfly-of-doom thing doesn’t really work in a franchise with an established multiverse. We know we can change the past without destroying our own timeline, it’s the whole premise of WOD.
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The player character does no joking on the matter. That is 100% entirely Chromie’s incessant bubbly optimism, which the character is known for being unbearably positive and only shows any emotion besides giddy happy energy in the last bit of the Norzdormu quests in the launch campaign.
To say the players do it with a fanfare is an overexaggeration and twisting the perspective of the events to make it appear worse. It isn’t pleasant and the idea that you are saying we should permit the creation of an infinite paradox which would spur even GREATER suffering so we could go, “Okay, we messed up we want to take backsies now” is silly.
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There’s a key difference between this quest and the actions of characters in the books; you’re not in control of those characters. You actively hand over Alexstrazsa’s freedom to those that will torture her, without a mote of resistance, hesitation, or concern.
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then don’t do that part of the quest. if it is problematic
The PC never emotes at all, that’s not the point. The fact that Chromie is all giggles and bubbles about it is honestly disrespectful to a degree I didn’t think possible. This is the Queen of Dragons, reduced to a bestial broodmare, and we’re cracking jokes about that time? That deserved a gut punch on-the-spot.
And the PC should, akin to the Loyalist line, be afforded the choice of being compliant or resistant. To force Nozdormu to step in (while disguised to the rest of the NPCs, obviously), relieve you of the Soul, and give it to the Dragonmaw before poofing you back to the modern day. Either choice concludes the quest in the same way, but it at least allows you to not be a total monster by the end of it by having tried to say ‘no, this isn’t right.’
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First off Chromie is constantly giggling and bubbly would be out of character for her to not.
2nd are we able to just not do the quest or is it mandatory for story purposes??
Sort of like the BFA loyalist vs rebellion quest quest around Sylvanas. Let there be choices that have minor deviations in how things play out. It was one of my favorite aspects of BFA and allowed me to RP my characters to see which way they would go.
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As much as there is a key difference between yourself and the character you’re playing in game; you’re not your character. You play them, yes, but you aren’t them.
Frankly that sounds in perfect keeping with the ways of the Warlock.
This class cares nothing for consent. We rip out the souls of the living to fuel our magic and sustain ourselves.
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Not reading this whole thread, but imagine getting angry that you have to keep the German Chancellor alive and claiming that it is an endorsement of his crimes. It’s literally one of the most common science fiction tropes - the consequences for f not maintaining the timeline are more severe than any one event in history.
Ugh. Just stop.
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Have you… Interacted with Chromie at all? They are very punchable if you find ceaseless optimism to be disrespectful as the entire character is based upon, “Everything around me is sad and awful but doesn’t mean I have to be sad too.”
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Y E S
if you this that is bad spec ops the line
you comment a war crime on fleeing civilians
keeping the time line is more tame then what you do in that mission
The character you create is literally meant to be your avatar in this world, this is a poor argument. You’re meant to experience the World of Warcraft through this character, and influence it through actions you direct through this avatar.
That’s entirely fine. If you want to play a villainous bent, then go ahead and hand over the Soul. I just don’t see without much greater coercion how a heroic character does this. Just taking the Bronzes at their word isn’t enough, we’ve seen that they screw up. Either we need to be shown The Bad Timeline™ and hand over the Soul with Alex’s OK, or we need to be forced to comply after choosing ‘no’ by Nozdormu doing a time stop, literally taking the Soul out of our hands, and giving it over before poofing us back to the current timeline with a talking to or whatever.
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Spec Ops treats its Bad Moment with the gravitas it deserves; the characters aren’t joking anymore, and everything just continues to degrade. Dubai could have survived if Walker just stopped.
This is not treating the moment with the gravity it warrants, at least not for a heroic-inclined character.
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It’s still so odd that you think we’re playing heroes. In this stage of WoW’s life.
I feel like we are generally ignoring some important points
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Most importantly- everything that has happened with blizz around SA, r*pe, harassment. Where is that in this discussion? It is relevant… and really encapsulates everything around this discussion.
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THEY DID NOT HAVE TO MAKE THIS QUEST and teams of people had to ok this and put this through (of all the infinite options available to them). This is a conscious choice to specifically address this lore, in this specific way, and keep it as is, at a specific time in the aftermath of Blizz and the Cosby room and all that.
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SA survivors do play this game and they deserve to be considered in how topics like this are addressed (especially by a company who has a history of SA and Harassment issues). That same history is a reason we should really be looking critically at how they discuss and address these topics given what the culture there is.
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we have literally altered the timeline plenty without issue so forcing players to be complicit in THIS IS A CHOICE BY BLIZZ
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just because Blizz has written stories where we were complicit in other bad things doesn’t mean that we should not also think critically about those things too, or that blizz is responsibly telling those stories. “WELL WE HELPED GENOCIDE” is not the trump card you think it is. Assisting in genocide is also pretty messed up and should be looked at critically and nuance within the context of the story lol Also a lot of us ran into those quests and thought “holy crap this is really bad, super messed up, this is irresponsible or bad storytelling around a serious topic.”
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BLIZZ LITERALLY RETCONS ALL THE TIME
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No.
I am not a tree-hugging cow or a radical Amazonian jungle fighter. These characters we play are their own character.
And your avatar is not you. There is still the separation of the screen, the controller, the fact that you literally can’t feel anything that’s happening to them. Further, this is (supposed to be) a RPG, and so being permits one to play as any kind of character regardless of if it conforms to the baseline that is your own personality.
Only as poor as one’s own ability to separate themselves from what they’re seeing on screen.
Then don’t. You’re fine with my handing it over, I’m fine with your not doing the quest, yet for some reason I must have my experience neutered to cater to you.
Unless you’re advocating for an option to skip it, which would be reasonable. But asking for it to be removed? Nah.
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but you still have carry out a war crime with chemicals on civilians.
if you say that it was a bad moment then this quest should fall under the
it was a bad moment then