Very Fair. I also probably should have clarified my intents during my furor of drafting my response.
I meant that those would be likely targets of point reduction, not reducing all of those to a single point, and I absolutely missed Crushing Force as a possible and preferable choice too. I was too focused on my disdain for one-handed weapon spec being a 2-point talent.
I agree with your statement that Reinforced Plates and Crushing Blows should be the first two talents reduced to single point talents.
I think the real solution to Blizzard’s seeming intentions for protection warrior is to just pick a new tank for the next season. I’m fine with sticking with a tank when it is weak, but gutting the flow of the playstyle which seems to be their current goal is unforgivable.
2 Likes
-Ignore Pain still weaker relative to live’s values. (Bug report submitted)
-Instigate doesn’t appear to be granting 2 rage per hit of Devastator. Still only one rage and tooltip for talent not updated
-Brace for Impact works.
-Storm Shield at 673 item level is only 635k
-Bloodsurge’s “Significant” increase to trigger chance doesn’t feel very significant, but is 5 rage though!
-Punish works correctly (according to tooltip) but feels like it’s so easy to fall off now.
-Gameplay still feels like trash
-Avatar of the Storm is 6 seconds on proc.
-Shield Slam hits hard. It’s a shame though that it feels like it’s never able to be used now.
-It almost feels like they want us to not take Devastator so we have to spam Devastate in order to fill gaps in the rotation.
So it looks like most of the important changes are testable.
Gameplay is absolute garbage
11 Likes
-Storm Shield at 673 item level is only 635k
So, so, so bad. No way that can go live.
Look if you wanna do anything look at button bloat,fix brew master etc etc.
Unnerf strategist, make pwar a super sturdy high dmg tank. We need the massive amounts of rage to be viable as well as class fantasy.
We lack utility compared to any of the other tanks, cry blow shout is meh, give the community a reason to want pwar instead of a pink trend
The other issue is Blizzard is killing Colossus Prot tanks utterly. You think the rage changes feel bad for just prot they completely overlooked how much more rage is used by a Colossus tank. It completely shuts down the spec to unplayable. 
I honestly started the xpac as arms and prot Colossus and will not swap it but I do see a very poor S2 in my future if something isn’t changed and why we can’t hear something official from Blizzard about the issue makes it feel like they are lying to us when they say they are listening to our feedback.
3 Likes
This is just sad. We are all providing enough feedback daily, there are a few threads about the same thing yet we still get such band-aid fixes that are not giving us our fun gameplay back. If you don’t know how to fix it, don’t break it!
I will never understand the whole ‘let’s make some changes to warrior’ thing. Why on earth do you even start it without any plan or vision?
Brace for Impact/Pushing change is only marginal, as we wont have enough SS procs to even see the difference in there. We need our changes completely reverted or more rage buffs and (a must-be) 30% Strategist.
I already commented multiply time regarding the Utility and how to fix, other users did too - focus on THAT instead of nerfing.
I dont even bother intervening on live, 99% of times it makes no difference to whether the person will live or not, the absorb amount is absymal.
Hey Blizz! Thank you for the initial changes, I was not expecting anything so soon!
Here are my thoughts after testing;
- Bloodsurge: in larger packs this definitely is noticeable but not enough. I would love if you could tell us how much the chance has gone up rather than just “significantly.” The problem is this doesn’t help on boss fights a ton and we are never going to take both Bloodsurge and Instigate. Honestly one of these talents should just be made baseline
- Practiced Strikes: Thank you for acknowledging that Colossus needs more rage gen! Big W
- The other changes to our DPS and tankiness via Brace for Impact/Punish are nice, no complaints tehe
Overall I think this is a step in the right direction. I still am of the opinion that none of the original changes should go live but this is better than the original set.
I just want to reiterate three things. First, there currently is no issue with how protection warrior plays. We already have the choice between a faster/higher APM playstyle with Mountain Thane and a slower more deliberate one with Colossus. Yes there are some tuning issues w/numbers but that’s easy to change. The design of both accomplishes what I think you and many players wanted from hero talents which is a gameplay altering choice to keep things fresh. As I said before and many in this and other threads have echoed, you are trying to fix an issue that doesn’t exist.
Second, Strategist and Devastate must go back to a 30% to proc for both. This has nothing to do with rage generation or dps. It is entirely based off feel. The spec feels slow and there is far too much downtime in our rotation. Pressing less buttons doesn’t equal more thoughtful use of rage. It equals less player agency and fun. It feels bad, slow and just awful.
Third. With the buff to Bloodsurge and the nerf to Violent Outburst, it seems like you want our rage gen to be more consistent and less spikey. If you want to accomplish this I think redistributing rage from SS to TC is needed. Our main rotational skills are SS and TC which (excluding talents) generate 20 rage. 15 of that 20 rage (75%) is from SS. One skill generates the vast majority of our rage. That is a bigger reason why we are constantly “dumping” rage into IP when we get a Outburst proc or the Thane proc where we get 3 SS in a row. It’s not because we “generate too much rage,” it’s because one skill generates almost all of our rage via our rotation. If SS generated maybe 13 rage and TC generated 8 we would have more control over our rage generation, it would be less spikey, Outbursting a TC wouldn’t feel nearly as terrible and it would allow for less dependence on our spec relying on one skill to function. This also gives you more nobs to tune when trying to adjust the spec.
There are many other ideas in this thread that are great too. Thank you again for your quick changes and listening to us! I hope you continue to take our feedback into consideration. Again, this is a step in the right direction but ultimately none of this should be happening in the first place.
1 Like
Many many good ideas, if you look at s1 warr was best tank until pally reworks, now pink is 80+% of tanks in 10’s and higher.
These warr nerfs/reworks isnt gunna solve that.
Focus on makeing pwar unique.
Example: keep fantasy in mind. Were a unyielding ball of rage in the battlefield.
Let us take the least amt of dmg thro our off gcd mitigation and massive rage intake…our rage is our backbone.
Next we have okish stops but since thats not a good way to interrupt anymore fix that and since we lack utilities compared to other tanks beef our dmg up.
Make grps decide do we want a self healing utility tank or do we want a raging brick.
Just my 2 cents.
Just dont go along with your ideas of slowing rage gen. Hot take: increase it. Esp for useing colossus hero talents
1 Like
I want a Dev to tell me what was in their minds when they were nerfing Warrior while releasing new dungeons for testing.
So, we cannot cleanse, we cannot BoP someone, we cannot immune any dot/hit/cast, we cannot heal anyone (own bubble and spell warding on someone), we cannot DR (Sac) anyone, we cannot range interrupt or multi-interrupt on short cd, we don’t have cheat death ability, we cannot make someone immune to movement impairing or free someone, we don’t do the best damage (currently last from all of them, aren’t we?), we cannot properly deal with bleeds/magic/dots while you are nerfing our IP incoming/Intomitable heals/TB 8% DRs due to low procs of SS->procs of TB, etc, we cannot provide CR, we cannot offer dungeon buff (PotF), we don’t provide group DR buff (devo), we cannot throw emergency heal to full on someone… etc etc, yet your pinkies can?
We can - catch a melee hit IF we stick with a player close to us and that player is even close to doing so, provide silly HP buff (10%, laughable), AP buff that is useful on a narrow amount of classes, AoE interrupts if we sacrifice throughput talents,a laughable oh-damn-im-close-to-dying talent which does not work if I sacrifice major talent (ravager mainly), Immunity to fear (1min) IF I sacrifice throughput talents…
Do you see the pattern? Do you see the difference? Why.
Where is the logic?
8 Likes
Great post, so happy there are so many eloquent prot wars out there!
These changes reek of someone desperately trying to justify their job and look busy while having no clue what they are doing.
7 Likes
I had a completely different idea after watching the Equinox vid about the Brew, quite a good one.
Instead of going the route of Ravager providing an extra utility we should go in-depth into the Warrior identity which is Shouts/Banners etc.
Possible interactions with Commanding Shout:
- Make Challenging Shout baseline, put Disrupting Shout in its place (separate talent)
- In Disrupting Shout place put Booming Voice
- In Booming Voice place put BSV
- As a meta nod in BSV place put ‘One for All’
# One for All
Commanding Shout now provides 10% DR to the whole group. Sort of band-aid to useless CS in 5man and a bit better raid utility.
Possible interactions with Disrupting Shout:
- Make Challenging Shout baseline, put Disrupting Shout in its place (separate talent)
- In Disrupting Shout place put Booming Voice
- In Booming Voice place put BSV
- As a meta nod in BSV place put ‘Hateful Shout’
# Hateful Shout
Mobs will run towards the player with increased speed. Sort of Grip.
Possible interactions with Banners:
- Make Challenging Shout baseline, put Disrupting Shout in its place (separate talent)
- In Disrupting Shout place put Booming Voice
- In Booming Voice place put BSV
- As a meta nod in BSV place put two nods choice ‘War Banner’ and ‘Victory Banner’ (couldn’t think of anything better, sic!)
# War Banner
Mobs will run towards the banner placed by the player. Sort of Grip
# Victory Banner
Banner will grant all players 15% DR. This will be on a 3-minute CD. Sort of utility to make up for the lack of dispels/cleanse/Sac/heals for the groups.
This could be just a start but would provide the meta nods as some sort of ‘aiming’ points. Of course, the removal of Challenging Shout to baseline and making Disrupting Shout in its place grants us that extra talent which we can spend on Utility instead of throughput.
3 Likes
@Blizzard
Nice to see you respond to Hunters. Now lets hear some feedback about what we warriors have given you guys.
They will avoid discussing anything with us because they don’t even understand what they themselves are doing with warriors.
1 Like
I think that’s just one of the more frustrating aspects of their intended ‘fix’ due to their own lack of foresight regarding Protection warrior’s gameplay as it stands now and what they’re aiming for it to be.
It’s a problem they’ve made themselves by placing so much rage generation on Shield Slam itself and making Shield Slam resets an integral part of the overflow of resource generation.
They need to rework this from the ground up entirely getting rid of a majority of ability reset mechanics (honestly the main cause of resource bloat in a lot of specs), provide a more smoother income of resources and change the flow of how much rage is spent per action.
As to how this could work? Could be something of the following.
Lower baseline Shield Slam cooldown to 6s from it’s current 9s, removing the reset mechanic entirely. By extension Punish now stacks up to 3 times (still the same 9s duration), refreshes it’s duration per shield slam as to not lose value as a talent choice and to also give some buff management to protection warriors while having a long enough window to counter mechanical downtime.
Remove the Rage cost of Shield Block and Ignore pain.
Ignore pain has charges now (3 in total), increased value, each having a 6s cooldown so it’s used regularly but you can also bank it when you’re not tanking the boss and it puts more focus on increasing Ignore Pain’s value via Brutal Vitality so that there’s some skill expression for wanting to maximise your throughput to reduce incoming damage rather than just spamming your whole rage bar into Ignore pain recklessly as it stands on live.
Naturally your only rage spenders would now be Revenge and Execute. However reducing the rage income to a point where you’re still able to press these buttons every 4~6s would be the aim given the projected cycle of Shield Slam → Thunder Clap → and then 2x empty GCDs if they’re put on a 6s cycle with devastator in the mix would then fix the problem of it being a extreme outlier in it’s high APM while also still hitting a solid playstyle where you’re engaging with it most of the time.
5 Likes
So you’re saying IP and SB cost not rage and Ip has 3 charges.
Will haste affect charge regen? Or flat timer?
Also to lessen button bloat have SB be a passive baseline talent?
Would ur version of SS cd be reduced by haste also?
I think u maybe starting to cook on somthing
In that scenario? Ideally Shield Slam would be hasted so it sticks to the same 4x GCD cycle of SS->TC-> 2x Free globals to fill in with Cooldown Attacks / Fillers.
As for IP at that stage if it got put to 3x charges 6s recharge I would say hasting it’s recharge would be antithesis to the point of keeping agency in your button presses but also lowering the spam of it to a degree.
Keeping it a little more tactical in it’s use and put more emphasis on Crit/Mastery/Vers as ideal stats over Haste to fuel into Brutal Vitality synergy through dealing damage while also maintaining the feel of a sturdy frontline bruiser who revels in the heat of combat since that’s the theme every warrior spec seems to share or at least attempt to.
1 Like
@blizzard this maybe a cook