The health was exactly the same, along with all the other stats. I coped the character from live and picked the same talents. My ignore pains are shielding for 100K less per application; the maximum is still the same
Btw, when I mentionted the tooltip, I meant that it now tells you how much ignore pain you will get per button press. Before it just said
Fight through the pain, ignoring 50% of damage taken, up to 2.3 million total damage taken
Now it says
Fight through the pain, ignoring 50% of damage taken until 502,599 damage has been prevented.
Repeated uses of ignore pain accumulate, up to 2.3 million total damage prevented.
Testing on Live and PTR I can confirm that Ignore Pain is currently providing less value per cast.
Ignore Pain cast on live: 757,514 value per cast.
Ignore Pain cast on PTR: 535247 value per cast.
Ignore Pain cast on 11.1 when correct: 985,000 or so.
That’s now a huge nerf to each individual ignore pain as well! I can only imagine that when they added that 30% modifier to “compensate” Ignore Pain that they incorrectly applied it as a 30% negative modifier instead of a positive one. That’s not a huge issue, and can be fixed pretty easily, but I can’t imagine it being intended.
That doesn’t change anything though: These changes are absolute garbage
Brace for Impact stacks up to 3 times (was 5), and grants 10% Shield Slam damage and shield block value by 5% (was 5% Shield Slam damage and 3% shield block value).
Punish reduces damage the punished target deals to you by 4% (was 2%).
Bloodsurge has had its chance to trigger increased significantly and generates 5 Rage (was 3).
Instigate causes Devastator to generate 2 Rage (was 1).
Most recent change, you’re clearly realizing that you hobbled Prot Warrior dps. But these are baby steps back from the nerf that opened this PTR. Prot Warrior rage gen is in tatters and chances to generate 1-2 more rage here and there are not going to help when your average warrior is going to be struggling to balance the cost of Shield Block and the nerfed Ignore Pain, oh sorry, ‘new and improved’.
Ion has said that he realizes Season 1 was not what the team wanted, engagement-wise. Why are you nerfing one tank going into Season 2 and ignoring a handful? Again, not even the meta pick.
I feel for Prot Warriors, it’s the same every expansion. They have the tools to soften a badly done Season 1 and then get either nerfed or ignored so completely following that, that they becoming irrelevant to the meta for the rest of the expansion.
You want more engagement for the Season? Go back and undo the nerfs to tanks going into the expanion, it was clearly a total lie that tank sustain would be nerfed in exchange for less spikey encounter design. What we’ve seen of the new dungeon clearly proves that wrong, again.
I can’t say much more. All these nerfs and tiny buffs to let us think we won some price here? That is NOT the way.
Undo all the changes and focus on utility improvement on Prot War, DK, and Monk. Stop nerfing Warriors after S1 each time. Look at Paladins, they haven’t been touched, people enjoy playing with them. I want to enjoy my class too.
We can’t just gut the class as some guy or a girl played the class and thought it was too fast. It was perfect. All we needed was a better utility to be represented after the meta was crystalized so groups could actually have some use from us and build some nice comps around. Making one tank to dominate is boring, does not matter which spec/class it is.
I am starting to lose hope. People are angry at Blizz for messing up with their class and M+ (50% of player did not complete a m+ dungeon over +2 if i remember). they better step it up and stop nerfing underplayed / underperforming specs…
I mean, I’m still going to tank for my group, and the new mount attached to the also-new Keystone Legend FoS is already incentive enough for us to give a better push for Season 2 after flaming out early this season. But it feels bad catching nerfs and radical gameplay flow changes in this way when we weren’t even “broken”.
I mentioned earlier in the thread how paladins are still 50% of tank representation right now when you filter to just 12 keys (where timing at least half of the season at 12 will be required for KSL). That wasn’t me trying to knock on paladins at all for where they stand. It was meant to be a demonstration of how the tank parity across the board at a level where Blizzard is offering a pair of rewards to strive for (the key depletion and now the mount) simply isn’t there. I don’t think paladins need any true nerfs. Warriors should have honestly been left alone (maybe even given Colossus the rage gen change these notes had) and instead the other tanks need some serious help.
Instead, we get…whatever today’s notes were intended to be. Scraps, really, without any believable reasoning as to why the main changes are remaining in place.
These changes were not what I was expecting from this PTR update.
What has become more apparent is that it’s not just rage generation that was problematic, but the pacing and speed of Protection Warrior as well. That is unfortunate as I enjoy the spammy fast paced gameplay of Protection Warrior tanking, rather than a rotation with gaps and holes that you have to wait and fill.
Anyway–Onto the changes:
-All ability damage increased, Shield Slam damage increased further: This feels like compensation for the reduction in Strategist proc rate. The reduction of Strategist triggers by 33% reduced Shield Slam damage by roughly the same and our overall Single Target damage by roughly 16%. This compensation should negate any direct dps penalty from the change to Strategist.
These two changes don’t address the remaining repercussions of tactician, such as lower rage generation from less shield slams, avatar/shield wall CDR from reduced rage expended via Anger Management, or gaps in the rotation from the reduction of the number of shield slams or reduction of available rage to use on Revenge to jump start the rotation.
-Brace for Impact: This kinda came outta nowhere, but is actually a very well appreciated change. This is also somewhat compensatory for the reduction in shield slam frequency of use due to Strategist trigger reduction and also as a further small buff to shield slam’s damage once fully online.
This doesn’t fix any of the aforementioned problems, but at least attempts to address a an-unaccounted-for-ramification of the Strategist change with this change to the intended behavior and cadence of Brace for Impact’s time to get online should be more consistent with the cadence of Brace for Impact on live currently.
-Punish: Much of what was said in Brace for Impact can apply here. The change in potency is to reflect the fact that we have less shield slams to apply effects like this, so we get a stronger effect to compensate for when we do shield slam.
-Bloodsurge: This was a change that was not just walked back, going from 5 to 3 and back to 5, but also was amended with the phrase “chance to trigger increased significantly”
This is almost certainly a change to address our rage generation in an attempt to have it scale in packs and groups where Protection Warriors would require more rage to function. The apprehension I have here is to what degree is “significant” in it’s chance to trigger. Bloodsurge is currently a 10% chance to generate 5 rage on bleed effects, and the phrase “Significant” could mean anything from an additional 1% to even as high as 10%.
The ramification of this change would probably push Protection Warriors back into the arms of Thunderous Roar over Champion’s Spear due to extra bleed every 45s. This feels like a YMMV depending on the personal opinion of Spear v. Roar, though and is really only determined by the impact of “significantly” in the context of the proc chance.
-Instigate: Interesting that they didn’t also buff default Devastate’s rage generation to 3 or 4 with the passive Devastator’s rage going to 2. I currently use Instigate with my single target raid build, but it might be that with this change there exists a very small chance that it finds a way into other builds with this buff.
This is an odd one. It does address some rage economy issue by introducing an additional income flow of rage into Protection while also offering a throughput increase. The challenge and penalty is that it also adversely effects our already bloated talent issues.
-Practiced Strikes: Take rage away only to give it back to colossus. Kudos to Blizzard for acknowledging that Colossus needs more rage, but give it back in the least creative way while also keeping rage a tight resource.
-Avatar of the Storm: Potentially a compensatory buff to Avatar duration due to reduction in uptime from less CDR.
Not much to say other than I won’t turn down more avatar uptime.
All in All: Some thoughts
These first round of changes really feel like they were targeted to address the ramifications of Strategist’ reduced rate of triggering without reverting that change. Most of the damage buffs are there to replace the rate of shield slams with fewer, but stronger instances of use, the buffs and effects are stronger, and rate of stacking of related buffs are quicker. The gameplay remains slowed, though, and that’s not fun.
It’s entirely possible that the damage component of the changes are made up from most of these changes. Current speculation is that, in damage out, we’re either about the same, or slightly better than before, but I won’t personally know until I do some testing on the PTR.
Rage generation addressed slightly with the increases to Instigate and Bloodsurge. I know that I take Bloodsurge for M+ and Instigate for Raiding. Apparently Blizzard is watching and reading feedback on this. Let’s keep being aggressive on if we still have issues so we can claw back rage generation before it’s too late.
Speaking of talents: our talent point economy is in shambles. We have no flexibility in either tree. Please reduce our talent point expenditure in key talents in the class tree like Armored to the Teeth, Weapon Specialization, and Reinforced Plates by reducing the cost to one point and not reducing the effect.
You could assist in the Specialization tree by reducing Shield Specialization to a single talent point and then baking one or two of our core talents into the spec passively. We currently have very little flexibility in this area.
I’d like to see Challenging Shout baseline Protection, with Booming voice in it’s talent place. This makes sense as it’s an improvement talent that is now directly flowing from Demoralizing Shout, rather than it’s current position being nowhere related to Demoralizing Shout. Put BSV in Booming Voice’s vacated node, and create a new talent that is either a very strong defensive talent that also related to rage generation, or another offensive throughput talent that has attached rage generation. The additional rage generation is crucial here as that node currently competes with two throughput choices that also generate rage.
Just to touch on Booming Voice switch with Challenging Shout, it’s perplexing why they haven’t done that and instead put it in a node where all the other choices outshine it by a country mile, so nobody ever takes it.
There are still a vast amount of remaining problems:
-Rage Economy is still does not feel good. The changes to rage generation all need to be walked back and left alone. In the unlikely event that the rage generation is walked back, here are a few solutions that might improve this issue:
—Reduce Shield Block’s cost to 15.
—Redesign Revenge to be Free, and Generate rage when it is reset by Dodge or Parry.
—Intervene also generates some rage or remove Charge’s minimum range.
—Increase Thunder Clap’s base rage generation and have it generate additional rage per target hit, allowing it to scale rage generation in high target scenarios.
—Remove the rage cost of Impending Victory for Protection Warriors.
-Address Talent Bloat in both the Warrior Class and Protection Warrior Trees
-Last Stand and Rallying Cry: Give Last Stand some additional effect to warrant its 3 minute baseline cooldown. Give Rallying Cry 100% effectiveness in 5 man content.
–Spell Block/Shield Block/Ignore Pain animations: Please give Spell Block some kind of animation; it’s currently sharing Shield Block’s animation. Shield Block and Ignore Pain need some kind of improved visual that they’ve been applied. Demon Spikes, for example, has a persistent animation associated with it’s effect so you don’t have to track it’s buff with a Weak Aura or pay attention to its buff duration. I’d like to see a new animation for both Shield Block and Ignore Pain that have persist animations for their buff duration similar to Demon Spikes.
–Ignore Pain: Ignore Pain was bugged last build; being 30% weaker instead of 30% stronger.
–Storm Shield: Defensive value of Storm Shield being tied to armor value has caused it to scale poorly compared to the damage output of the content that Protection Warriors would want to utilize the bonus. In higher level Keys and Raids the amount of absorbed damage isn’t worth the GCD to use intervene to grant the utility and provides no personal benefit and at great personal risk to the Protection Warrior as well. Effect needs to be changed to a flat Magic DR% to the target intervened, if not also providing a smaller bonus to the intervening Warrior. This grants a unique and interesting utility to both Protection and Fury Warriors that is sorely lacking.
I’m sure I’ll think of more when the PTR comes back up.
I haven’t had an opportunity to test the PTR. I am hoping to do that in a week or two. How much armor value are you getting in testing?
I ask to try to calculate how much shielding intervene with Storm Shield is giving. In S1, with max ilvl values, it is about 450k which is like 6-7% of a health bar. It is almost not even worth the global in >12 content as it barely has any impact. With it being a magic shield only, I would personally like to see it be at least 15% magic shield even if they increase the cooldown a little bit to compensate. We have very little group utility, at least make whatever you are giving us impactful.
Not enough to make Storm Shield matter. The effect needs to be decoupled from our armor, or ahem “significantly” increased to be effective in content where we’d want to utilize it.
It should probably just be a straight magic damage reduction for both you and your target rather than some formula based on armor.
Im 638 on live at the moment and it’s roughly 510,000 shield on an intervened target. I’d wager that the talent was designed and balanced prior to the stamina changes and now it doesn’t keep up with health pools at all.
The final rung of talent 2 point gates need to stay 2 point gates without the introduction of different nodes and pathways in this section otherwise we would be able to take practically every single capstone they kinda need to stay as they are.
But for actual agency in build diversity Crushing Force and Reinforced Plates need to move from 2 point to 1 point talents.
on the PTR right now.