(can’t reply to my old thread so I have to make a new one)
Prot damage feels almost “too low” to bother playing the class if not for people depend on us. If we had a better way to generate holy power or generated holy power faster then it would feel much better but as of now I’m extremely dependent on waiting for SoR which was a problem EVERY PROT SCREAMED ABOUT IN TTW we hated being tethered to SoR and yet it’s our only offensive holy power. That’s a pretty big FAIL imo.
edit: Instead of buffing holy power generation lets go at it from the other angle. Make SoR only cost 2 holy power and we’re back in business. That would feel much much better.
2 Likes
Play a damage spec for damage
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Weak suggestion and borederline trolling ^
The problem with prot won’t get fixed by abandoning it for a dps spec. Prot won’t feel any better to play or more engaging. The problem is with Prot’s dps. It doesn’t feel good. I see several others with the same opinion. Here’s a thread about it. You’re welcome.
4 Likes
Doesn’t solve it.
It’s an imbalance between CD/non CD.
We’re stupidly strong with CD’s, the AoE burst is completely busted.
The only other spec I saw with more AoE burst yo date is Ele shaman.
They need to shift some of the CD’s power into the base kit.
I genuinely don’t know how though.
The CD’s aren’t doing anything they weren’t doing before.
The only thing that really changed is the Apex.
It probably needs to be untied from AW with the 100% chance to trigger.
In fact, I don’t know that, the way it is, there’s any way to shift things around that doesn’t involve redesigning this APEX completely.
It should have given AS it’s HP generation back with some bonus effect.
This is over the top in wings and lackluster outside of them.
1 Like
AoE burst is all we’ve got going for us. a 2 cost SoR would lean into that playstyle while keeping the trolls happy our single target damage is still in the dirt.
2 Likes
It only marginally increase single target whilst making our burst AoE more egregious.
This AoE burst is not a boon, no tank should have that kind of damage and then fall that hard.
Both the AoE burst and the single target damage/damage outside of wings are problems on different ends of the spectrum.
You need to take a birds eye view perspective and forget the spec you’re playing.
This is not normal.
The boring solution is to halve the power of wings and boost baseline abilities accordingly.
I don’t want my wings like that personally but without reworking the APEX that’s what might happen.
3 Likes
Personally, if not a bump in base damage (outside of CDs) or adding another attack type, don’t change a thing.
Manage pulls accordingly and time your 1 minute DT & AW. Which becomes more like 35 seconds after proc. Use your defensives when pulling larger packs outside of CDs. Prot is fine IMHO. I’d just be greedy asking for more.
Easiest way is to remove crit wings, they cant buff our aoe/st output cause higher ends will find ways to script crit wings as playable and prot dmg would be out of control but without crit wings i feel like dmg could be properly increased imo
1 Like
I mean yeah, like I said, easiest way is to mangle the CD.
The thing is, that’s not historically a problem, it’s just the amp.
The actual damage comes from specific talents and the APEX is the only thing that really got added.
It feels wrong to put down an iconic CD instead of addressing the problem the Apex brought, new talents that most don’t overly care about since it’s brand new.
i personally dont see removing crit wings taking away power from wings, sentinal is very very good now with the new talent for half cd but atm prot dmg is very good if you can get away with crit wings, but mid/low if you cant especially ST so to me the quickest and easiest solution is just get rid of crit wings
82 now. It’s gotten a little better with gear but still feels like I’m pillow fighting between cooldowns. Soloing is extremely painful and not being able to do all of the campaign co-op killed the point of me playing prot with my girl when it feels like I should have gone dps with her.
It does not get better. I am a 263 ilvl tank, and currently top 20 on my server for prot paladins. We can tank almost anything because we’re so damn hard to kill (Until 11+ M+ and mechanics in Raid, which we are currently struggling in) We not only need more ST damage, but we also need more Armor and Health, or lower CDs on shields, because WoG spam can only take you so far. Healers are struggling to keep me alive to the point I’m kiting things across rooms. Its awful.
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Oh man all we ate were nerfs today.
So.. Monk or Death Knight? I really don’t like DK’s rotation tho.
The only pally notes were pvp only.
Crit Wings + Apex Talent + Lightsmith Scaling AoE with Crit + The “greedy” dmg talents in the Prot Tree
… are really making Prot AoE feel like a 4th dps in M+ scenarios when looking at the overall at the end of a dungeon.
In exchange, when trying to maximize dmg, I am currently finding myself wanting extra “tankyness” in certain spots during keys. (But if gear keeps rising , or you play with a team that can give you externals, Prot AoE might put us ahead of other tanks, especially come Season 2.)
- Crit Wings
- Lightsmith makes Judgements Crit AoE
- Bouncing Judgements capstone Talent
- 5 Holy power SotR for AoE capstone Talent
- 1 min wings (+ 1 min Divine Toll + Apex)
- Prio Crit Trinkets over Survivability (Using a Vet Track Permafrost Essence from Den of Nalorak - will usually give me somewhere between 700-900 crit on mega pulls)
Of course, all this relies on actually living the content, but when it clicks into place its incredible.
I am currently having fun with it, and I almost hope they don’t adjust things, but I would also understand if they did.
Whats still somewhat strange to me design wise is that Prots Apex dmg is very controllable/consistent as compared to Rets.
Prot pushes Wings, and every Avengers Shield is AoE buffed (and you also just get it sometimes for free) - you can extend the duration of Wings as well via Judgement spam.
Ret can increase the chances of the Apex AoW proc by stacking haste and crit, but there is no guarenteed way to force out a bunch of AoW procs in a burst window the way Prot currently can.
Were both Apex Talents originally “always on” for Wings and Blizz determined that would be too busted on Ret?
…and are they “okay” with how far some tank players will sacrifice survivability to push dmg to near dps spec levels? They nerfed Bear tank hard, but that was high Single Target - is Prot Pal next on the list?
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Almost Everything you named is bugged and it seems you aren’t even aware of it, that’s crazy bad awareness lmao
…So if I’m a 4th dps even with bugs, then Prot AoE is actually absurd?
Yes the cleave Judgements don’t do as much dmg as the tooltip would dictate - they still hit 3 targets and cleave Lightsmith when they crit.
Yes prot aoe is broken and always has been pretty much. The issue has always been that since shadowlands they neglected the single target dmg so bad you might as well afk in raid and it wont change a thing, also its issue lies in its survivability as its main defensive is its healing with word of glory instead of relying on dmg reduction like other tanks. That means if mobs get to a point the dmg spikes for too much, you dont have enough hps to heal your just getting one tap and it feels like bad game design.
Also it feels like were still in beta when its so easy to find bugs by testing out builds on the training dummy for less than an hour.