Hello! As my guild gets more and more people to 60, we’re putting together a raid roster. I’m a contender at the moment to be the guild’s raid leader, which would be a first for me. I’m considering what loot system to go with and I’m leaning toward DKP. But before I implement anything, I wanted to get some feedback from others who have used the system.
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Even groups on the left, odd groups on the right.
50 DKP minus!!
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You can’t gear up 40 people equally without some system. My guild uses epgp though
Systems needed to make people keep coming to raid, instead of randomly loot some pieces and leave or skip raiding while people who attend get nothing
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I’ll start with the cons:
The main one is that it promotes gamesmanship of the system. People will hold points that otherwise could have been used to upgrade the raid more evenly, so you often end up with a loot distribution where a few people are raking in upgrades while others are hoarding points week after week and not improving themselves while waiting for that one big ticket item that may never drop.
The above also commonly lends itself to the occurance of someone who was stacked on points gets wiped out on one big ticket item and then now leaves guild because they’ve spent all their dkp and wont see another item for a long time.
Additionally, you must be very thoughtful when laying out the rules of a DKP system since changing them is tantamount to changing the rules halfway through a game. It can be a fairly inflexible system, so when something pops up you didn’t plan for, bad things can happen.
You can create rules to help mitigate the cons. But you have to be very careful when doing so as those rules themselves may be exploitable.
Pros:
It is a 100% objective system. The rules are clearly defined. Thus, people can create reasonable expectations for themselves on the outcome of a drop. This leads to less loot drama over individual pieces than more subjective systems.
People can reasonably expect to obtain drops over time because they gather currency to do so. Luck and subjectivity are removed from the system so it feels more fair to people. With a proper point awarding system, points, and thus more loot gets funneled to the people who contribute more to the guild, automatically without interference from leadership.
It is one of the most transparent systems you can implement. Everything can be open so everyone knows what is going on.
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This entire problem is fixed with EPGP and the point decay system it brings.
It is one of the main reasons it is better than DKP in my opinion.
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DKP is fine, it has its pro’s and cons like any system. I always preferred it to LC myself.
I’m assuming this had been tried, but do you know of any problems with having a dkp cap? Like a maximum of 300 points. Besides creating a bunch of ties. Although, maybe that Is the problem if farming all the time.
I had a friend explain this in depth and like Dot said there are plenty of pros and cons to the dkp system.
To battle the cons you would need to adopt a loot council that you force someone hoarding points wearing greens and blues to take an upgrade and spend x amount of dkp on it.
Another pro about dkp that Dot didn’t list is that some people are altaholics and want to change classes every other week to bring to the raid. That’s ok if they are geared but most of the time the altoholics are wearing crap gear and in turn hurts your raid dps/heals. The dkp encourages your raiders to commit to a character.
Use DKP, but with one caveat, nobody can use DKP to buy something for them. DKP can only be used to buy a drop for someone else.
It would be an interesting experiment.
The best system is a Weekly decay DKP in my opinion… it balances the flaws with a DKP system…
Peoples biggest concern is people hording DKP and newer players have little to no chance at getting any loot.
WIth a decay DKP system… you reduce everyones total DKP by 5-15% every week.
This way, people who consistently come every week are still rewarded, but also hording DKP is a less attractive option because you get less value over time.
Guys i’m 7/8 can i get this last piece of tier set so i can finish my set and do more damage at next raid?
Random guy with 1/8 pieces : nope i have 5 more DKP than you! GL next week
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A tip, back in the day… we had monthly auctions, where people could use their DKPs to buy cores, recipes, essences etc, bascially anything the raid gets can be bought with DKPs… it also helps clear out the bank, and mostivates people to spend their dkps wiesly, since there is more then just gear to buy
Honestly, dkp is just a huge hassle to deal with. Between tracking dkp points, dealing with hoarders and the time it takes to but for an item it’s just too much. It’s like an extra job.
There are 3 unique, easy and interesting loot systems to use though.
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Gdkp,
use your current gold to buy for an item. Highest bid wins. At the end of the run a % gets split between the entire raid. Usually like 90% goes to raiders and 10% to guild bank to fund guild perks. This solves multiple things; gold bank, easy to use, and distribution. Also, everyone feels like a winner even if you don’t win loot. You get gold! -
King of the Hill/list,
you start with a randomized list of positions from 1 to 40 based on /roll. Loot goes to bid and the highest person in the list that wants the item gets it. Said person now gets placed on the bottom of the list. New raiders get added to the bottom. Very easy to use and track. This list does not reset between raids! This keeps it fair. -
priority roll +1,
this system is strictly a /roll type. Everyone gets a 1 priority roll at the start of each raid lockout. When loot drops you have 3 tiers of rolling. First is priority roll where only people with that priority roll point can roll. The winner for loot in this tier loses their priority roll for the rest of the raid. Second is main spec, roll in this tier if you don’t want to use your priority point yet, but the item is an upgrade for your main spec. Lastly is the off spec rolls. Roll for off spec wants.
Each of these is very easy to handle, very transparent and in one form or another (gold) distributes loot (or gold) evenly.
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Pro: Hilarious Youtube videos
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You know that 8-5 job so many of us have? Imagine doing that Monday-Friday every week and then only being allowed to pay for your neighbors food, entertainment, bills, christmas presents, etc while you’re at the mercy of your next door neighbor (who works part time at a drive-thru) to pay for your family’s stuff.
I don’t think interesting is the correct word to define that experiment.
Why not just do /roll?
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No thanks. I’m not going to compare feeding my family to video game loot.
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It’s been 4 weeks of raiding and my mage is almost entirely decked out already because of dkp, meanwhile others have rolled on maybe 1 or 2 pieces.
Our dkp is capped and you lose some if you lose a bid. So it promotes strategic bidding.
As others have pointed out, a system is needed to encourage attendance.
Oh sorry I didn’t see it. But I think /roll encourages attendance because if you haven’t gone in a while you know you can go the next time and have a great shot at whatever item
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