Are you saying that being one warm body out of 40 able to avoid standing in questionable puddles and clouds is not a worthy and heroic undertaking, compared to easily running through Strat?
What gives me warm tinglies is the memory that back in vanilla raid gear clad individuals got destroyed by the Baron run. Like a brick wall.
I have no clue what youâre trying to sayâŚ
Hint: It was heavily laden with seething sarcasm. (aimed at the poster you were arguing with)
Raid-centric opinions are cancer.
I 100% agree with you OP.
T0.5 is one of the things I am most looking forward to with Classic WoW.
Got bad news for you man⌠WoW has been about âcasualizationâ from the beginning. If you want hardcore, youâre looking at the wrong game.
Even back in 2004, WoW was considered a âcasualâ MMO.
If you have any false sense that WoW is a hardcore MMO, youâre in the wrong place.
Its a good game, and its an MMO. It is by no stretch ever meant or was a hardcore game. Maybe by today standards by the brainless masses it could lean in the direction of âhardcoreâ, but that is far more a reflection of the dumpster fire that MMOâs are in now; Not the game itself.
And if YOU want to be patted on the back and given rewards for being a casual player, YOU should be looking at BfA.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion here. The comment you are talking about was referring to making vanilla MORE casual friendly from where it started.
Itâs a spectrum slider, not a binary option, and bending over backwards for casual players who feel entitlted to epic quality gear is underlying concept that, more than anything, has turned WoW into the game BfA is today.
Uh. So youâre one of those delusional casual players that 14 years later still fails to comprehend that the entirety of the lvl 60 experience was designed and balanced around raiding.
The idea that the majority of the populace didnât engage in raiding in vanilla, was a primary design failure of the game, that the game itself overcame. It was only after gathering data on raid participation that Blizzard started on the path of ever increasing amounts of casualized content, and gearing paths. The majority of those things didnât enter the game until TBC or later.
Raiding wasnât just everything, it was the ONLY thing. You being a non raider doesnât change reality.
What youâre asking for is akin to a raider asking for Naxxramas at launch. I find it hilarious you are trying to use the classic content release proposal as evidence in your favor, when it actually proves my point.
Actually I understand quite well what goes into obtaining it, and again, itâs not meant to be for everyone. Itâs the highest peak of non raiding content, and one of the only possible ways a non raider can even acquire epic level gear. Itâs supposed to be hard, and few people are supposed to be able to get it by design. Furthermore itâs supposed to be more or less irrelevant to people who do raid, as itâs intended for the non raiding player (which is itself commonly referred to as a âcasualâ). Those sets are intended to be (and tuned to be) basically a non raiderâs prestige set, kind of like how Raiders had Naxxramas sets/gear. You heavily impact the rarity and prestige of those items by giving people significantly more time to complete them, let alone by releasing them early enough to where they actually interrupt the normal gear progression flow for raiders.
Sorry but no. While it was meant for non-raiders, it was not meant to be âirrelevantâ to raiders. It is arguably harder to get the boots/pants/hat than it is to get raid gear. You may âunderstandâ what goes into it, but did you actually do so during vanilla?
You heavily impact the difficulty of obtaining the D2 set if you allow raiders to gear up in raids prior to getting D2 for the âprestigeâ. I would rather they came out as early as possible so that they could not be lowered in difficulty via the existence of raid gear that was obtained by virtue of having a large chunk of time and a pulseâŚ
Again, I doubt very much that you achieved a D2 set within vanilla and are talking out of your rear.
You would rather break the gameâs itemization and gear progression even more than 1.12 already does, because as a casual you feel entitled to epic level gear, despite being a non raider, yes I understood what you meant⌠BfA is full of epics raining from the skies just for people like you.
Ah yes, once again displaying gross ignorance of the difficulty of obtaining D2. And no, having a block of time and a pulse does not mean that epic gear is yours and yours alone. The Baron run is arguably one of the most skill based and difficult tasks in the game outside of PvP. Your minimization of it is laughable, especially when you suggest it is easier than raiding.
D2? Surely it is akin to purples âraining from the sky like BFAâ
I would be checking your profile, but you saw fit to hide it.
So youâre NOT trying to change the entire itemization progression flow of the game for the personal benefit of providing you with an opportunity to get epics as a non raider, well before they would normally be available to you?
Youâre asking for non raider END GAME content, to suddenly turn into early/mid game content, because you feel entitled to epics despite not wanting to put in the work to raid. Check your entitlement at the door, or go scurry off to bfa. Youâll apparently be happier there.
Hahaha, keep telling yourself that.
D2 is already gated enough by virtue of time to acquire D1, time to get massive amounts of gold, time to acquire the large array of required items, and the sheer overall difficulty. But by all means, keep suggesting that raiding is somehow more deserving of purples due to âworkâ (read: having a block of time and a pulse) and that having D2 accessible earlier would somehow throw off your raider (read: having a block of time and a pulse) gear progression.
Gonna guess you are a cataclysm baby at the earliest.
That was fun. Then again that was the only one I could muster anyone to do.
Vanilla open beta, actually (tried to get in, but didnât get picked for closed beta)⌠but super ironic that a self professed non raider who still feels entitled to epic quality loot is trying to paint me as the cata baby because I disagree with his opinions and overall sense of casual entitlement.
Oh and as for your earlier assumption about my completion or non completion of the chain⌠I did it on my rogue (non raider, but had the blue pvp set which was roughly MC-BWL level gear at the time) and did maybe 1/3rd-1/2 of it on my warlock out of boredom (that toon raided and had no interest in the gear itself)
Iâm not âsuggestingâ anything, as suggesting implies any form of remote ambiguity. Rather, Iâm outright stating facts about how the game was designed back then. Epic level gear was purposely kept rare and (wait for it) epic.
Your tier 0.5 was meant as END GAME progression⌠NOT MID GAME, NOT EARLY GAME, but END GAME progression for non raiders, and a chance for them to get their hands on some epic gear. It was the pinnacle of their progression, the Naxxramas level content available to them that they would eventually work and strive towards. Thatâs not something you release early simply because some poster on the forums is oozing with entitlement issues and lacking in patience⌠Youâll get your chance to do the t0.5 chain again, when itâs actually appropriate to do it. And youâll also apparently get a nigh unlimited amount of time within which to complete it after itâs out, because Blizzard is already apparently on course to cave into the frankly disgusting casual mindset that ruined retail by not time gating servers.
Or, you could simply raid if you are claiming itâs so easy for you⌠if anything, with the 1.12 changes, itemization, and class balance, you should have absolutely zero problems getting raid content done if you claim it was so easy back in OG, and then subsequently ignoring the t0.5 yourself.
The gear is worse than MC gear, which is why itâs called T.5. So from a pure power perspective thereâs no reason it shouldnât be available at the same time as MC. Maybe you are one of those people who confuses the text color of gear with itâs actual quality?
This is real simple 4 phases 12 patches 3 patches per phase.
1.3 has DM so it goes in the 1st phase.
You earned that paint by your display of abject ignorance concerning D2. And I do not buy your claims that you did it on your other toons. Even if you were to post on them so I could see them actually wearing it, there is no way to prove if you obtained them during vanilla. All I have to go on is your display of ignorance and minimizing it compared to raiding.
Large chunks of time does not equal effort or âhardâ. Likewise smaller chunks of time does not equate to âeasyâ.
And once again you ignore the fact that the D2 set gear is terrible for just about everyone and at best only 1-2 pieces are in any classes pre-raid BiS list. You really need to actually look at the set itself, some pieces are not even epic after upgrading.
And all I have to go on with you and your incessant whining is your over developed sense entitlementâŚYou have yet to actually generate any argument of substance beyond a toddler crying for his pacifier. Saying the gear isnât that great, isnât an argument to get the content sooner, itâs an argument to get the gear buffed or at least better itemized, but that isnât the argument you are making here.
So sit down, shut up, and wait for your casual end game content to come out⌠when your casual end game content is actually supposed to come out. You donât see threads about raiders demanding AQ40 or Naxx at launch. Your content is gated for a reason, welcome to reality.
With 1.12 tuning, gear, and debuff limits you can do a MC speed run⌠Itâs not all that large a chunk of time.
Iâm not ignoring anything. Your position was read, weighed, noted, and decided to be inherently devoid of merit. Saying some of the items where bad, isnât helping your argument⌠Gloves of Rapid Evolution was a BWL drop that was poorly itemized to the point it earned the dubious nickname âgloves of rapid disenchantmentâ⌠It wasnât the only terrible item in BWL, but it isnât an effective argument to have BWL available at the start of the game, just because you for some reason think youâre entitled to it.
Since youâre so knowledgeable on vanilla WoW, Iâm sure you remember that it was marketed as the less hardcore alternative to other mmos of the time. So something for âcasualsâ to strive for is pretty much exactly in line with what vanilla was. All the 0.5 sets were was the dungeon sets with a second pass at stat distribution once they had time to work out how to properly stat their items.
AlsoâŚ
No. Iâm sorry if youâll feel less special if other people have time to progress in raids, but I imagine a lot of people like the idea of their accomplishments staying relevant in perpetuity.
And for the record, your âraiders are all that matterâ attitude really really bothers me on like a fundamental level. It makes it hard to take anything you say very seriously at all. Actually, can I mute you? is there a mute option on these new forums?