Do you make up new numbers every time you post? It’s not 12% to Ret in full ICC BiS which is what you’re complaining about.
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Cause that would effectively toss rets out of raids and those of us who raid as rets might as well quit?
That IS what your argument boils down to here, that’s why we’re lashing out at your argument.
The only reshuffling was feral. The changes to ret just brought ret to about where it was performing for most people in icecrown the first time.
It was never the worst DPS spec, it always performed around the same level as fury warrior. Classic performance was a reshuffling for ret that the changes fixed. That’s why going into the expansion everyone was like “ret is a top tier DPS spec!”
…until we actually started playing it and found out it was actually trash the entire time now that people play much better on average.
Ret and fury are basically at a tie. Feral is the only one ahead. Warriors never needed a buff to stay about tied with ret. Ret needed a buff to stay about tied with warrior (and on high parses we are usually left behind a bit anyway as we don’t spike as high when everything goes right).
Rets got fixed before then. Aggrend was the one that told rets they were going to be left alone.
…then Ulduar happened and ret performance and representation stayed unacceptably low. They fixed the spec because it flatly wasn’t worth the raid slot, and wasn’t going to be until after you carried it in ICC for 2 months and prioritized it a shadowmourne (which you’d never do).
That was very, VERY unlike how the spec performed in wrath. Unlike every single other class with a spec that did that little DPS, there were alternative options within the class for viable DPS. Warrior was near the bottom of the viable DPS range, but it was still in that range.
If rets wanted to raid in even semi optimized raid groups, that buff was needed. Fury never needed that. Even in Ulduar it was a well represented DPS spec.
cmon, ain’t no 1 benching their ret with the exception of ultra sweaty losers that literally live on the ptr.
Only guilds who fight the roster boss wouldn’t.
Hell, if my dps was noticable worse I would offer myself to the bench for progression, and have in the past.
Your dps has basically been trash the whole game, yet you had a raid spot.
You can’t even say it was an investment either, because it was always assumed that you would be mediocre in iCC.
TBF, the pirated server players did say ret would be very strong in ICC, but they also said feral would be S+ tier from the getgo, and they were trash tier until they got a massive 20% dmg buff. Basically they were wrong about everything.
A whole lot of rets were dropped between the end of Naxx and early Ulduar. As Surv pointed out a few times, the number of ret parses was dropping off hard in the weeks following the blue “just respec prot or holy” messaging.
The private servers were definitely off here. My guess is that it was largely poor guess work on their part with the under the hood tuning that they based on replicating old wrath performance averages.
The expectation of ret on past performance (not even counting private servers) was that it’d be average/good in early tiers and with shadowmourne one of the best.
Modern optimizations dropped the spec to unacceptably low levels. Not quite as bad as they were in vanilla, but definitely to a point where they both weren’t living up to their old expectations AND were low enough to just be dropped from optimized raid groups (which trickles down to lower skilled ones that try to copy the meta).
If paladin had a better DPS option, like every other class in the DPS range ret was in, no buffs would have been needed. We didn’t need buffs to be top, just not the inarguable worst DPS spec, which is what they did.
Ret would still be basically the worst DPS spec if those buffs were removed. You just wouldn’t bring them to ICC to give them a shadowmourne so they could finally become ok if you had a healthy roster with options for whom to bring.
Post buff, ret performs about where it used to relative to the rest of the specs.
Feral is overperforming.
For 25 yeah, I even outlined why above.
I literally got benched for 10’s and had to do most of my Ulduar 10 mans as protection.
So much for all that utility huh?
A large percentage of the player base emulates what the top guilds do, ret was benched in all of naxx and ulduar prog prior to this, if its not optimal its going to get kicked by a certain % of guilds, by you saying “only ptr guilds would do this!” is just saying its not good and he is completely right
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I wouldn’t care if warriors get buffed, however, a nerf usually hurts progression. The point of my post is that people are crying about being able to progress easier because someone is doing more DPS than they are. It’s stupidity at best.
This is not correct. Before Wrath was released private server players said that Feral damage was contingent on this incredibly high Omen of Clarity proc that they weren’t sure was intentional. The consensus was that they were either going to be mediocre (if the proc was low) or fantastic (if it was high).
That turned out to be pretty accurate. Obviously, no one really expected Blizzard to attach a nitro-boost-pack to Ferals, but here we are.
As was warrior. At least paladins had raid spots at all 
So did warriors, no one has been leaving them out, they just aren’t stacking them.
Even if you wanted to complain about warrior representation, you are complaining about the wrong spec. Fury has always seen wide use, and even at its worst was far beyond Ret’s.
Warrior only struggled to get tanking roles in wrath classic.
no1 is kicking either. you are both lying
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People were kicking rets prior to buffs. It was easily seen in plummetting logs of recorded rets.
Ret was also among the least represented specs in hard mode clears, ranking along arms/BM hunter…
It was bad. But hey, you can keep ignoring the well documented reality that led to ret getting buffs in the first place.
ppl just weren’t playing it. they weren’t kicked
It’s obvious that YOU weren’t playing it. Because if you did you would know that ret was being sat for hard mode Iron Council and Hodir.
Stick to your normal mode raids and don’t comment on anything heroic or hardmode related, because it’s obvious you do neither.
only super sweaty guilds did that. and those ppl all have alts to play
stop pretending this applies to you at all
you raided this entire time doing crap to mediocre dps. you won’t be benched because you’re doing mediocre dps
Even Algalon, the fight where DSac is huge… ret was the among the least brought DPS specs, and only remotely close to other specs that had alternate DPS options like arms warrior and BM hunter…
But our utility makes us soooo good right? So good that we were sat on a fight that is the theoretical best case scenario for Ret’s utility…
again conflating not playing with benched
i have a pally, it’s not fun. class sucks, even if it’s op