Probably time to roll back the class changes, Rets and ferals way too high on expected DPS

Yeah, they got the 5% nerf blizz tried the first time on the PTR glyph.

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And there it is. “Blizz doesn’t make changes from sims” posters in shambles


And there it is. “Blizz doesn’t make changes from sims” posters in shambles

You really think they are going based off sims? That would be incredibly short-sighted. They likely tested DPS on their reference client, gathered PTR data, and now they will generate more data with the PTR (as the nerf is only on the PTR for now - who knows what version makes it into the game).

They used ptr data for sure, not sims.

Feral is excelling in ptr with current gear, ret is middle of the pack.

Neither of those come with the threat modifier bear weaving did which constituted a real threat to the raids survival.

Well it looks like Ferals are getting an adjustment.

Per development notes.


dont be bad, use threat abilities like salv or tricks or don’t do it

if they wanted to remove threat from the game entirely, they would


Alrighty then :roll_eyes:

so a paladin has to sit and babysit the feral just to salv them so they can bearweave and get the most out of their dps without accidentally pulling agro and potentially ruining the fight for everyone? that’s just straight bad class design and needed to be fixed

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an easy solution is to give them an ability like the paladin ability that increases threat when on and doesnt when off

also its a nonissue now because they got a 20% cat buff and the a 5% nerf

everyone’s gonna stay cat, and do more dps than if they ever bearweaved

the only reason anyone might consider bearweaving now is because of the new set’s lacerate dmg bonus, but we’ll see what happens.

I don’t even buy the whole “bearweaving needed to be fixed” thing. Without Bearweaving Ferals were very viable and with it were set to be very competitive. Players found a way to get more out of the class - that’s great. I really don’t get this urge to homogenize the stuffing out of every player innovation.


Same, their reasoning really came off as
“Play with your toys how we want you too”


Removing bearweaving was good because it was warping threat around a single dps. However there were definitely other ways to do this. Making cower like shatter would have been my preferred method at least but here we are.

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While I approve of the nerf and hope it stays - the veil over Blizzards “process” has truly been lifted. There is no process. Just the squeaky wheel. If a few key streamers and vocal forum posters persist long enough and the sims back them Blizzard will follow, and then not, and then … depending on how “the community” winds blow.

Since the dev leadership quit or got dumped the whole dev cycle has been run by some marketing intern.

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As someone who mains cat to specifically play that, I can safely say not only was it not optional (if you wanted to actually do real DPS), it wasn’t fun at all. Feral Combat is already juggling and spinning plates as is, these styles made it worse. Also, its not thematic at all.

Viable is also not equivalent to competitive. There was no reason to bring a cat to a raid for anything period that couldn’t be better handled by a bear. Not just in utility but also in its main role, meaning once again, having a bear was a better option.

Whether you think that’s fine is a matter of who you raid with and how hard your raid tries to push content. But at the end of the day, bringing bad damage classes, whether they are just low as part of their class or low because their specialization has a massive skill expectation to be on par with others who do way less work to be good, you’re putting a chilling effect on the raid’s success. If your people are fine with that, cool. Most people really aren’t though and especially not in trying to find content outside a group of friends to raid with unless you have some deep pockets for GDKPs.

Anecdotal note here, having played Cat Form as my main for all of Classic, people did not want me because of the stigma about my specialization as a Feral Combat DPS. (I.e., asking what spec and saying “Feral Combat” getting declines for DPS spots.)

Nor did I say it was.

Thing is - if you play in a dad guild a Feral could play without Bearweaving and still do about the same dps as a Ret. - perfectly acceptable in that context.

In a parsing guild they would min max - that’s the whole point. And yeah then you Bear weave.

Through Vanilla classic, players devised all sorts of wonky exploits and playstyles to min max. And - for some that’s the fun part. These innovations would also have tradeoffs, maybe you had to monitor threat more or have your team do things in certain ways to max your parse - this is the point of min maxing and the challenge of it.

As it is the WoTLKC player mentality is different. Where in Classic we were like formular one drivers making minor adjustments to maximise outputs. In WoTLKC we expect the car to have max output built into it with comfort added - like having a formular one car with an Auto transition and luxury leather interior …

Also, fun is subjective - what you find unfun others find fun (else they wouldn’t do it).

Case in point - Overpower weaving is optimal - but it’s not fun, so even the minmaxers don’t do it. People vote with their feet.

Now, when the attempt at homogenizing playstyle also results in that spec getting an easier rotation rewarded with 10-15% more dps they didn’t need - that’s a bit of a problem in my view. We’ve forgotten the whole idea of tradeoffs.


They have that.

It’s called Bear Form.

instead of nerfing ferals. they could just you know buff warriors…

Imaging typing all this out early on in the data gathering phase for testing of dps classes.

WE did it boys!!! Now time for the rets to get a swing or two from the nerf bat.

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