Primordial Wave is killing our spec

Classes Shaman
1

When the Farseer tree came out, I really hated it because I felt like it focused on multi-doting which I hate doing. But I realized something: I just hate PWave. And I think a lot of you do too without realizing it.

For context, I’m pretty mid-core and mostly just do Arena so numbers and “optimization” never really mattered to me. I’ve also played Shamans since 2010 and seen our whole crazy evolution.

I’m a Lava Build, but I don’t use PWave since it kinda just feels like another button to cast Flame Shock to me. Since I’m mid core and not beholden to meta, my PvE usually looks like this:
-Single target/cleave? Flame Shock, Icefury, Lava Burst, Frost Shock, Stormkeeper/LB procs
-Lots of dudes? Liquid Magma, Stormkeeper, Chain Lightning, Earthquake, Chain lightning, repeat.

Now ik this is super remedial and garbage but there’s something I want you to notice; I use all the elements. To me, Lava is for single target and Lightning is mostly group damage. I didn’t notice this until recently, but apparently most good Shaman players feel cornered into one or the other.

Why? Because of Primordial Wave

In my simple little world Lava Burst has always been single target burst. When the Farseer tree came out, I was upset that it was solely focused on group damage until someone commented this is the single target tree. Then it started to hit me: it is the single target tree, but they crammed in this annoying extra button to tether you to multi target.

To be upfront, I never really thought PWave was very cool just from the Shaman fantasy. It’s a weak move that basically just applies Flame Shock. But I’m starting to see a bigger issue with its place in the Ele community, that being that PWave is the main move driving this tree apart. Think about it:

You take away from Lava’s single target gameplay by forcing Lava Ele to focus on keeping PWave up, and you take away from Lightning Ele by giving Lava a numerically must pick option for multi target even if it feels worse than Chain Lightning.

Ik, I’m not an authority on Shamans and I’m just a normie player who ignores meta. But, I have no complaints about my balance of Elements while more intense Shamans have a ton. The difference between us? Primordial Wave.

I’ll leave it to you pros here to discuss, but what are you thoughts on that matter? Would it give each element more opportunity if we took out PWave? Would you like to see the move reworked? How do you feel about this move being mandatory?

8 Likes
2

“Primordial Wave is killing our spec” Is it though? Is it really?

I respect your opinions and play style.

1 Like
3

Thanks friend! It might not be, but I thought it was worth pointing out that playing at a lower level I seem to be happier with Ele right now. It makes me sad that my compatriots feel like they’re stuck choosing and I noticed this move is at the center of a lot of it.

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out!

4

Always.

I’d say it’s prolly 50/50 split if people like Pwave or not. But I think everyone dislikes the tier bonus revolving around it. Which then compounds into the differences and flaws of the individual 4 dps builds. It’s just… a lot.

In my opinion, Pwave isnt harmful. I find it quite useful. The on demand elemental damage does good damage, and the double LB does significant damage (Single Target). Both of those are reliable and consistent. Plus it interacts with our kit. Which I think is all you can ask for a single ability. :slight_smile:

1 Like
5

Isn’t your real concern that both sides of the ele tree don’t really complement each other versus one ability?

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It is for sure, but from my perspective it seems like PWave plays a pretty big role in that. Totally serious question but if not PWave, what would you say is causing this competition and what’s making it unfair? I want to better understand the greater Shaman community 's feelings

7

I honestly think there’s a better way to implement primordial wave and that would be something more along the lines of nature’s swiftness.

Make it a next spell modifier (off the GCD of course), so that the next A,B,C (whatever is included for that spec) spell you cast, is also cast on all the targets with flame shock / riptide.

Additionally it would trigger the whole “next 4 lava bursts happen every 3 seconds” effect for elemental.

Additionally, they could allow spreading for these spells to be augmented in some other way than currently (which is that PW applies it)

I think that’d make less pre-setup, and generally make it easier for people to understand and use.

8

This is the cornerstone of your argument and why I easily disagree with everything you state.

Your entire argument is “if I ignore reality and focus on my world. What I want things to be, and what I pretend things are…”

I realize that. Mostly because you are saying a lot of objectively wrong things, based mostly on personal feelings.

For example. Pwave is based on using every single element. You are ignoring this.

9

I wish that were true, but people on this forum voted for it. There’s a good number of people who actually like the brain dead Lava Burst spam for some reason.

10

Oh yeah, I forgot about that lol.

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I mean it is really effective in pvp lol. It keeps you pretty mobile.

That being said I often feel locked behind my lava burst CD and like I can’t cast anything else

12

But then we have to consider whether they like it because its fun to play, or if they like it because its strong and more catered to the content they do.

2 Likes
13

I just want to give you a special shout-out my man. I’ve seen you on a ton of threads and you are consistently the most miserable, negative, and insulting without adding anything to the convo. I posted this opinion of mine, which is that I feel less pigeon holed in Ele by not reading the meta and posturing that maybe PWave contributes to this, then asked good Shamans what they thought.

Now, you don’t have to answer, you could tell me why you disagree or what I’m missing, or you could even be a troll and say something funny, but every time you just straight to actual anger and a very sad elitism.

I see a lot of other better players than you on this thread having an actual conversation, you should take a look at how they talk to each other (even when disagreeing with OP!) because you seem to be having a lot of trouble digesting what forums are for :slight_smile:

2 Likes
14

You dont want a discussion.

As you stated, its about how you perceive things in your own personal world. I cant counter that.

Any counter is how things actually are. Not how they act in your “simple little world”.

If the discussion doesnt line up with what you personally believe, there is just no room for it in this thread. Your entire post is about “ok, I am right. lets start with that”

15

Well…

16

Yes. Thank you for pointing out the only discussion they are really looking for are ones based on “Pwave = bad”

17

You excel at selective reading, it is quite impressive. Everything will be okay friend.

18

I gave my thoughts on the matter. I was not a fan of ignoring how things work in game to focus on a personal notion on how things are in a personal world.

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As he stated before, he was giving an opinion. It’s fair to not like that opinion, or how it is presented. But it’s not fair to hold that distain towards him turning around and asking for others opinions on the matter.

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I think feeling obligated to take ice fury leads us down a path of 2 required skills that take up valuable talent points. Make Pwave do what ice fury does and then rework the tree a little and give us an extra talent point to put somewhere else in the tree.

Or make ice fury do what pwave does so it’s instant. That’d be nice qol change