The topic of Prideful and pugging, yes.
I have pugged a LOT in the last 3 expansions, and I can promise you that if I run a route I am confident in, the key will always go better.
That’s why I love Prideful honestly.
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I had no idea what exploit was being argued about until you mentioned the fix.
Anyone actually defending that as not being clear blatant cheating is fooling themselves big time. Regardless of how hard SD is, bugging a boss out of his encounter area when he CLEARLY RESETS IF YOU TRY TO LEAVE HIS ROOM ORDINARILY in order to circumvent a mechanic is simply put filthy cheating.
How anyone can think causing a boss to pull through the floor is something that Blizzard intends to allow to happen, when again, he ordinarily resets immediately if he leaves his encounter area, is beyond me.
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Every pug key I’ve failed with prideful as been because a tank thought he knew better and his route ended up being crap.
You’re enabling this attitude by saying things “it’s all on the tank”.
Period. It’s not all on the tank. Some of us have a nice array of routes to offer that are much better optimized.
But who will be the one pulling and executing the route?
That’s the fact I am stating.
You can contribute all you like, but unless you also want to handle the pulling, its on the tank at the end of the day.
That’s just how it is.
Well, yeah. I mean in that sense, tank confidence is more important than DPS confidence (as a tank, I don’t run a route unless I like it). The point though is that regardless of how confident you are in your route, your route should be mindful of when DPS are able to go ham.
You already plan for Pride and Lust based on the concerns of DPS, it isn’t a step too far to say like “okay, this pull 1.5 minute cooldowns will be back up so it can be a double pull instead of 2 singles”.
Absolutely should be and is for most tanks.
But in situations where communication is very low, its all on the tank’s shoulder usually.
Doesn’t matter who executes the route. It can be planned by anyone.
It’s irrelevant to the discussion about it being the role of the Tank to PLAN the route.
I have no issue pulling for the tank if he wants to be hand held through the dungeon.
Only because of people like you who are unable to recognize the Mage in your group has a much better route. And then you get so salty about it, you purposefully botch it, and call it bad.
Even though it was a better route than your own. We know the type.
Ask me it is a terrible concept simply because of what it encourages. In fact that is the entire problem with m+ that it takes the worst parts of a dungeon run and makes them the entire focus so everything just becomes more toxic because it’s encouraging the worst behavior.
This prideful crap makes it 10 times worse.I really wonder what the hell this team is trying to accomplish by taking the worst parts of dungeons and making it the focus rather than trying to stamp it out
Encouraging communication and planning.
How dare they.
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Honestly Metro the more I see Raiimirs posts the more uninterested I am in interacting with him. A solid 95% of the time he appears to just want to be combative with whoever he is posting to.
Best to just ignore and move on
Welcome to Mythic+.
But it does matter.
If the mage plans a route that the tank has never seen and isn’t comfortable doing, there is a higher chance of poor execution, simply because he isn’t as familiar with it.
Everytime I was in a pug (almost all my runs are pugs) I am starting with
“hey guys, here is my route for tyrannical/forty week, please let me know if you have any other suggestions / better routes”
99% of time I hear back “LOL I just follow tank”.
This makes me wanna switch to DPS to be honest 
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It’s honestly weird. Some people have the wrong idea about M+. They think that because it is smaller scale, it should feel more like Arena. You kind of just go into an Arena match and adjust to what is happening on the fly.
The problem is that style of gameplay doesn’t work in PvE on the high end - chaos has an inherent unfairness to it, which works in PvP but doesn’t translate into PvE (see: the raging about any PvP-style boss implemented in WoW ever). PvE, in order to feel consistently challenging but also fair needs to be more about mastering a dance.
The fun part about M+ to me is that you as a player plan the dance yourself though. In a raid there are set dance moves and your goal is to execute; in M+ by contrast, especially with the limited resources online, you both plan and execute the dance.
I’m sure it is possible to create a version of dungeon content these people claim they want, but I don’t think it would have the legs that M+ does. Compare Rifts in Diablo 3 to WoW’s M+ - Rifts are fantastic for casual play but the push meta in D3 sucks. It really sucks. Getting favorable RNG becomes a dominant part of the meta game.
I’d rather folks just say they’ll follow my route. The cringest situation is where one DPS insists on some other route because his buddy claims it was good and “would have made time”. It’s to the point where I will just straight up Hearth if some guy starts arguing with me, especially if I know the route is questionable.
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Let’s not kid ourselves about what a route is. It’s a set of mobs to pull. You can literally have it up on a 2nd monitor.
It doesn’t require precise timing and platformer gimmicks to pull off.
If the tank doesn’t have good defensives for a pull he needs them, that’s either a potential party wipe or a forced split pull. If a DPS doesn’t have cooldowns for a pull, it just takes longer and requires more kiting. They’re not equal.
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In the current Mythic+ meta, the only defensive a tank needs is his slow and arrow keys.
If a DPS doesn’t have cooldowns, that’s where your tank is most at risk, not when he lacks Vampiric Blood.
You have to actually get threat to kite, and some trash packs will instantly vaporize the tank if he’s in melee for even a second without a massive defensive. So that’s kind of a problem.
For a specific example, the quad ghoul pull in SD will shadow claw the tank for around 18k (ignoring armor) x4 which will just melt the tank without a massive defensive. You need big, BIG defensives, you need to get a ton of threat as fast as possible, and then you kite. But you can’t kite without getting threat and you can’t survive being anywhere near them without a defensive.
Granted, it doesn’t require a lot of planning - you just don’t use your big defensives on the second boss and save them for this pull - but if some tank didn’t know that was what needed to be happening, that would be problematic.
You dont need to pull that, no?
At least not on forty.
Which you can get through the initial CC, which is up for pretty much all pulls.
Sure you can kite without getting threat. I’m also struggling to figure out which pull has ghouls in SD ?
It’s not exactly a dungeon with ghouls…
You sure you don’t mean the ghouls in front of Margrave in PF ?