Which is a good thing then that the Great Vault exists, no? Getting 220 gear out of your vault just by running +10s will go a long way to getting you that much better gear.
That’s exactly one piece of loot per week and you have extremely limited control over what you get.
Why are you defending bad dungeon tuning by saying that the Great Vault makes it easier?
The dungeons should be reasonably feasible for groups that have the gear they drop for as long as gear is the main factor for that level of play. A group in full 207 gear should be able to do a +14 with relative ease, but as it stands I wouldn’t even take a 210 for a +14 because the content is tuned around players having better gear than what those dungeons even reward.
This is why Prideful is the way it is. A good group can use it well. If Prideful didn’t buff you it would just be a huge time sink on its own that would also make several bosses borderline-impossible for weeks on end even on Fortified weeks, and straight-up impossible except for extremely overgeared groups on Tyrannical weeks.
But that’s just not how M+ works in Shadowlands.
Blizzard very explicitly said that they are lowering the level of drops from the dungeons.
Look, dungeon tuning is one thing. Certainly some boss mechanics could use a detune, especially on Tyrannical.
But the problem is that just relying on the buff from Prideful is a bad solution that just makes things worse because it creates this mentality in players that if you dont have the Pride buff, then it’s just impossible to kill any bosses and you’ll never even complete it over time. Which is not how things are supposed to be. And personally, I’d argue it’s not actually how things are, either, but you’ll never convince players of that, so I’d rather the buff just went away entirely.
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Because that’s actually the case.
Try doing Amarth on a Tyrannical +15 with a 210 group without all the Necrotic Wake buffs, Bloodlust, and your Prideful buff. The fight is borderline impossible at that item level unless you run the absolute best comp, and the boss would take upwards of four or even five minutes on its own.
Try doing a +15 Tyrannical Margrave Stradama, at 210 ilvl across the board, without a Prideful at the start. See how long it takes for your healer to get completely overwhelmed in one of the three main phases because you weren’t able to skip an Infectious Rain.
Blizzard reduced the ilvl of M+ gear (which they shouldn’t have done) but also tuned the dungeons around gear that M+ doesn’t even reward.
I don’t think you understand just how badly some of these bosses are tuned as you go higher and why Prideful is so necessary.
And let’s not forget that a Prideful that acts as a pure timesink with no reward will lead to lower M+ participation rates overall. There’s a reason why the community universally detests Infested and dislikes Beguiling while Reaping, Awakened, and Prideful are universally beloved.
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Why would I do that though? I’m ilvl 209. I run +10s and push +11s. And yeah, Amarth is entirely doable without Pride buff on +10 with a group at 210.
But a +10 doesn’t drop 210 gear. It drops 203 gear.
Is it doable under those conditions at 203?
I feel like you’re completely missing the point here.
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Which isn’t a prideful issue, it’s a Tyrannical issue.
Nobody likes Tyrannical for good reason. Except contrarians, but nobody cares what they think.
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Like I said, my average ilvl is 209 and I run 10s. It does not matter that the dungeon itself only drops 203 because, frankly, loot never drops anyway. What matters is that the 220 from the Great Vault is a huge upgrade.
And I’m not the only one. Most people joining my keys are also hovering between 207 and 212 ilvl.
That’s my point here. That it’s more appropriate to gauge the difficulty based on the ilvl of the people actually running the keys rather than based on the level of the loot that nobody cares about.
Hate to break it to you but M+ is timed content, and even without prideful there are optimal paths to take to ensure you clear in time. Some packs are easier than others, some are positioned in a way they must be killed, some can be chain pulled for quick killing using cds, etc…
Even without prideful the issue you’re complaining about still exists. Git gud, or maybe consider that M+ isn’t for you.
Static you say? Despite almost every dungeon having 3-4 paths pending on affixes for the week? You could also plan you own route path and not dl its a rather simple process
Before prideful, pulling an unnecessary group would just result in the slight loss in time it takes to kill it. There wasn’t a dungeon-wide mechanic that messes up over it. It makes difficulties above +9 unfun to tank.
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Before prideful, there were other mechanics that popped at % breakpoints, such as season 2 in BFA. This isn’t the first and it won’t be the last.
Affixes like prideful are fun for everyone but the tank. It’s just like the last season in BFA. Tanks have to pre plan the entire dungeon memorizing routes and percentages while the rest of the group just follows along. It would be cool if tanks could be tanks again instead of kiting tour guides.
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Actually, I think contrarians offer a very important perspective on any conversation they interrupt.
I see what you did there ^
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I love Prideful.
Feels like a weird thread. People are whining about how harder content is harder. Yes, you don’t have as much room to make mistakes when you take on harder content. That’s how it works.
Thanks, timer! 
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Tools like MDT would still be important and heavily used no matter what. The higher the key, the more important efficiency and time management become and knowing which mobs are skippable and which you should get to nail 100% becomes a key part of the efficiency/time-management.
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The problem isn’t that the content is harder.
It’s that it completely changes the normal dynamic of how a Mythic+ functions.
Here’s what I mean. On a +9 or in any season of BFA, if you ran a mythic plus and make a mistake, you’ll miss the timer. But you can still pull again and again until the bosses die and you complete the dungeon. Which gets you a weekly chest and maybe some loot.
But with Pride, once you wipe and lose the buff, people have this impression that it’s impossible to kill the boss any more. Which is counter to the philosophy of being able to complete the run even if you are over time.
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You mean when the group disbands? Yeah that sucks.
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