We must keep the old Rogue dream alive. Unprune Gouge for Sub and Assassination. 
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So if an ability is 90% as strong as it used to be, it’s dead on arrival because the non-consequential 10% isn’t there? Just because Premed could be used during Dance doesn’t mean the main use for it (getting SnD up during openers and restealth windows) is suddenly useless.
It’s also a level 15 talent. It is not suppose to add in-depth gameplay. Just because it doesn’t have insane flexibility does not mean it is a bad level 15 talent.
And also gives more player agency too.
In what way is it 90%? If you compare the cooldowns of Vanish on beta with Dance pre-Legion you’d already get the combo points twice as often (every minute instead of every two minutes). Ofc back then you’d have vanish on top of it.
Even if you solely look at the duration of SnD you get from the talent, that’s not 90% either, because at it’s lowest a 2 cp SnD gave you 12 seconds. 10/12th is 83.33%. On the Beta a 2 cp SnD gives you 18 seconds. 10/18th is 55.55%.
In what world can this talent possibly be “90% as strong as it used to be”???
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THis 100%.Sadly, I do no think the old premed will come back. I would at the very least like to see this changed to any ability that requires stealth to give SnD and extra cps while also having ShD Give 2 cp when used.
Still wouldn’t be as great as before when it comes to choosing when to get those cps and what to use it one, but better than it is now.
It’s dead because it’s boring and will only be used on openers or restealths.
I didn’t say it was? I said making it a passive that only procs during restealths gives it very limited use mid to late game because you aren’t going to be getting restealths consistently every 30s
Horrible way to look at it because 6/7 of my talents right now are passives including the level 100 tier. Just pulling excuses out of thin air.
And let’s be real. A button to add 2cp in stealth isn’t hard. It just has the potential to do more than a one dimensional passive.
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In no way did I ever say that any of the other Rogue talents were good. Rogue talents have never been good. Look at MoP (an expansion people want to return to in regards to talents and class design) for a historical reference on how terrible Rogue talents have been for as long as I can remember.
But that does not change the fact level 15 talents should not add in-depth gameplay. That is not their purpose.
LOL Seriously?
Night stalker, shadow focus and subterfuge, all 3 good all 3 had use.
Deadly throw, combat readiness, and nerve strike, all 3 good and all 3 had use.
Cheat death, leeching poison, and elusiveness, 2/3 good and all 3 did have use.
Shadow step, burst of speed, and cloak and dagger, all 3 good, all 3 had use.
Prey on the weak, paralytic poison, and dirty tricks, all 3 good and all 3 had a use.
Shuruken toss, marked for death, and anticipation, all 3 good and all 3 had a use.
Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were excellent, and you are wrong.
You were saying…
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Now compare those to other DPS classes and tell me again those are good. Just because we used them doesn’t mean they are good when compared to others.
The other classes had good options also, but you’re comparing talents to talents in a vacuum and you can’t because the other classes are actually very different and less of their power came from the class and so the talents made up the difference.
The rogue class was just fine in MoP, we were 100% competitive without being op and game breaking while also remaining fun to play and play VS for others in PvP.
As for other expansions like TBC and Wrath our talents were excellent and extremely powerful and in some ways a little OP. Our o
Pre Cata talent trees were great and by no means bad at all, or lacking competitive vs other DPS.
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We are not talking about being good or bad. You said a level 15 talent row should not be adding much depth. I disagreed and listed my points out already. You just are trying to switch topics randomly
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Except they do for quite a few classes.
Sabertoof v mooncat is a pretty big change (never mind infinite TF with Predator in aoe). Warrior of Elune is like a better version of premed for lazerchickens. Or Sudden Death or Animal Companion or Lonely Winter, etc…
For that matter, Blindside will probably end up generating more free combo points than old Premed, and it does damage.
Let’s just hope they don’t nerf sub again early expansion to the point where it becomes dead spec once again.
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History does tend to repeat itself.
That is a legit concern given BlizZard’s track record. Plus look at the last two expansions. They like Assassination being all around good in most forms of content with Outlaw excelling in M+. If BlizZard is biased against Sub about how it should perform in PVE and PVP because of the other two specs perform that is unfortunate. But Sub should not be penalized because of how the other two specs perform. They need to make Sub competitive at the very least. 
Burst of Speed was a lot of fun. Deadly Throw and Shuriken Toss dropping ranged suckers felt so good. Of course, they were bleeding, and they had poison damage on them. And if they got close we could Gouge them.
But that was when rogues did rogue things. Like disarm a trap.
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Premeditation appears to work with Shadow Dance as of today. I just tested it.
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So it does. And it doesn’t seem to overwrite a better SnD now.
1 Like