This isnt a PI should be deleted because of social issues within a guild, but rather specific feedback related to how PI created tuning issues with shadow priest, whether blizzard has explicitly stated it or not. This post is long, and some of it is opinion and some of it is inferred fact(just read it makes sense later). Feel free to disagree its a forum for discussion for a reason.
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Shadow priest being tuned around having Power Infusion feels like garbage. Shadow priest is currently towards the bottom tier of damage, but because of the relative damage increase PI gives to other classes, its “total” damage is actually near top 5. I know some people enjoy playing a support class, but shadow is a dps spec, and most people would like to be at or near the top of dps meters, it’s just how it goes. But with the current iteration of PI and how it interacts, Shadow priest will never be allowed to be even remotely close to top DPS in the game without making it the most broken and overpowered spec in the game. I don’t want to sit at the bottom of damage meters and have to say to myself “well i gave 9k damage to the warlock so im really closer to 4th”. I want to be 4th on the meter itself.
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PI is the only DPS external that is in the game other than Blessing of Summer, which is only a Holy Paladin spell. No other DPS class in the game has to be tuned around giving a very powerful external to another DPS. Yes twins fixed the issue of giving PI away completely, but it doesn’t solve the issue of shadow never being allowed to be at the top of damage meters without being overpowered. If other DPS classes had to be balanced around giving an external cooldown to other DPS then it wouldnt be as much of an issue, but currently shadow priest is the only one. Mage doesn’t have to give combust to someone else or Feral give Berserk.
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I don’t think the overall design of PI is bad, I just don’t think a DPS class overall balancing is positive with its inclusion. If there was a way to balance PI around only healers having it without making Shadow priest useless in a raid scenario, then I would suggest something, but I honestly don’t have any ideas in that regard. Being relegated to mid-bottom tier DPS because of PI interaction just isn’t an enjoyable experience to me , or a large majority of the people i’ve interacted with. We want to see our name at the top of the meters, rather than someone else and have to think “well at least i helped him do that!” while we sit at the bottom of the meters forever.
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For reference, shadow priest got a nearly 10% buff from that start of the expansion, and we are still bottom tier DPS. I think logs are showing us at like 5th worst currently. If the damage PI gave to other classes was included into our damage, we slot in at around 5th. So “overall” shadow might actually be in a good spot in terms of tuning, but for most people, it feels horrible sitting at the bottom all the time and having no realistic possibility for upwards progression because with one button we can give another class 10k damage. I think for the overall health of shadow priest and class balancing in general, PI should either be removed, or somehow reworked to where it is no longer an external. I get it, it’s sometimes fun to give out a PI and watch other people crank damage, or to crank damage as another class when you get a PI, but it seems like PI is fun for every DPS except the one who actually has PI, because it’s honestly just created more problems than it has solved.
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In conclusion, I don’t think the introduction of PI was an entirely terrible thing. Trying something and it not working out perfectly is alright, but personally I think the PI experiment is nearing its end for my level of tolerance. Unless there is some genius idea to fix the issues around it, i personally think PI should just be removed. As a shadow main I don’t want to be a bottom tier spec forever because of the value PI gives to someone else, and at some point it would be nice to be like every other DPS spec in the game and be allowed to be near the top of damage meters with our own damage, not someone elses. It’s not fun being at the bottom all the time and not being used in super high level content because our class sucks. If there is a separate solution to the issue that you can think of please share it, as someone who does high level content i want this to be discussed and hopefully seen so it can be adressed.
10 Likes
You missed the most important reason why giving shadow Twins is a bad idea. all off the stuff you mentioned the devs could accept as a design choice BUT i think its VERY important that you get the main reason why its bad down.
PI is bad(specifically twins and giving it away to other people as DPS) because it creates a situation where if you lack the best possible partner for it than you essentially are weaker.
Shadow is in the top 5 DPS ONLY if the following situations occur:
A. the person you PI is a Demo Lock
B. The person you PI doesnt die or get a mechanic that stops them from DPSing while PI is rolling
C. The person you give PI to is using it effectively.
This alone adds extra variance that negatively effects your contribution to the group and its completely outside of your control.
You really feel it in M+ because you are typically not running with another range because double melee handle interrupts better and positioning is easier. Most melee gain so little from PI its almost not worth casting on them.
This is the core problem with Balancing Shadow around twins.
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I wish they would just delete it at this point. I hated it in Shadowlands and I hate it now. Why did we get relegated to a subpar support class?
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For shadow PI should be a personal DPS CD like RoP, Combustion, etc etc other DPS have. Twins should only be an option for healing priests imo.
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Agreed. I’m also confused as to why PI is treated so oddly, but heroism classes its no problem.
Bloodlust/Hero get treated differently because so many classes bring it now, shammy/mage/evoker/hunter but no other class, especially no other DPS class brings anything like PI for others. Imagine if a mahe could give other casters their rune of power. The class is already balanced around using it itself imagine of theu could buff other classes damage by 40% on such a CD.
That is basically PI on Shadow and it really shouldn’t be. Shadow was never designed around having PI and it shows.
Pi should be a disc only spell like it used to be.
Shadow can have its damage adjusted within its toolkit to account for its loss. Holy has a million cooldowns already. Giving pi to disc only fits more with the spec imo and also would make disc a bit more desirable, gosh knows we need help getting into groups.
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They could also just make it a split choice talent, one option twins, one option some sort of increased effect on yourself, insanity gain, dmg, crit, whatever. That would bring back the give it away problem again I guess.
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Whats it matter if the dragon dies anyway.
Disc needs help getting into groups because it struggles with throughput to carry people through mistakes. Disc is a luxury healer that is best suited for the non-pug environment. For a pug, if the decision is a healer who can carry vs healer whose gimmick is healing by dps with some shields and PI then it’s really a no-brainer.
Unfortunately disc needs to get rid of Atonement entirely but the world is not ready for that, thus disc will struggle for the foreseeable future.
As the spec currently sits I would agree, however, that is only because disc has never truly been designed from the ground up around the concept of an absorption+atonement healer and instead blizz try to make atonement work within the framework of disc established literally all the way back in Wraith, which if we are being honest was a complete accident and mistake.
Why is the class going to be based around absorbs when it literally only has power word shield? Sure we got divine aegis a shield we couldn’t control, and in some cases spirit shell to turn our heals into shields. All of which where bandaids and didn’t really fit the concept of a class focused on absorbs.
Atonement likewise was a gimmick, and its been toyed around with repeatedly but it honestly doesnt synergize with the spec like it should creating the clunky feeling many talk about.
Imagine instead the class had spells like Sacred Shield that applied small shields over a long duration when ppl take damage, big shields on CDs like PWS so we could pre-set our mitigation and then do most of our actual healing through atonement, which would heal more than current, with a few “oh crap” buttons to recover big spike damage. Would make for a far more coherent spec.
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It’s a myth that Priests damage is balanced around Power Infusion. If you look at the actual spreadsheet with the simulated data of PI it’s only on average a 3-5% overall dps increase for that target. That’s a 2-5k dps increase.
Even if you added that 2-5k dps increase to Shadow it still wouldn’t cover the gap. The issue is simply in regards to not tuning the #s properly which Blizzard has to address.
Shadow is mainly brought for its utility because there’s a lot of fights on Mythic and Heroic where you have to use Mass Dispel. Disc and Holy have to eat 10% of their mana each time they cast Mass Dispel whereas its free for shadow.
Some people want to feel like they contributed rather than just got carried.
As long as you do mechanics, don’t die, and do ok dps you are contributing and not getting carried.
You missed the keyword “feel.” You can argue they are contributing till the end of time, and you can be correct in that regard, but if the person doesn’t feel that way then it doesn’t matter.
Being physically present may be enough for you. It is not for me though, as I am competitive.
Actually PI is around 8% and if you had 5%-8% dps to them you will see them up there with demo locks.
Not really, other classes have more desirable utility and shadow’s you can easily do without(hence why WF clear had 0 shadow priest). If you are bringing a priest, it aint shadow.
Pretty much, why bring Shadow when you could just bring a better spec with the same utility.
1 Like
Really? I thought he did a fine job.
those are all superficial(IE i want to see myself at the top of the charts) i was addressing more of its effect on balancing the spec. Those are good points but they aren’t the most important.