Why? I can understand with normal mode, still wouldn’t agree with post - nerf values, but sure. Make the easier difficulty a loot pinata whatever. But Heroic?!
The health value changes alone are absolutely staggering. We’re talking about 30%+ HP reduction to some bosses. I mean this is flattened content. Hollowed out from its core.
Why are you catering to the self - proclaimed casual “dads” when you’ve already made an entire game mode (SoD) for them? That group of people don’t even WANT Cata. They’ve been crying about how Cata is the worst thing ever, and how they just want to play WotLK forever. And you’re catering to them.
Why are you punishing players who want a little bit of progression? There’s NO justifiable reason for Heroic to be in a post - nerf state. You think those people would even care about Heroic? The only “reason” I can think of is that Blizz is putting so little effort into Cata Classic that there’s no point in doing the extra work. Just leave it as it.
I’m out. I don’t mean that as a “woe is me” kind of thing. Me leaving is EXTRAORDINARILY insignificant for Blizzard as a company. But I feel there are a lot players interested in Cata like myself that are going to feel the same way.
Wrath had Arthas and all - of - the - nostalgia, DKs. Part of Cata’s identity is the step - up in raid content.
Deeply saddened, though not surprised, to hear this.
Why answer a question, that’s not really a question? You’re not really asking. We both know that. And if you’re interested in this characters raiding history, go find it. Its out there.
All you’re attempting to do is push your asinine “everything should be easy and the only place those seeking any level of challenge should go is Mythic raiding on retail”.
That may be true, but they are breaking a cycle of almost 5 years of making the effort of releasing raids in their pre-nerf states. I for one have come to expect that the classic development team cares about releasing raid with as close to the level of difficulty that they had initially. They are breaking the cycle of what we’ve come to expect from classic servers.
Part of the fun of raiding in classic is to see how badly we remember the difficulty of these raids and either find that the bosses are way easier than we remembered (i.e. level 60 Naxx) or that they are actually really hard (i.e. pre-nerf Lady Vashj). We also get an incredibly more diverse set of tools to learn and overcome these fights so even without numerical nerfs the raids already feel easier than they would’ve been. Add to that the fact that the 4.2 nerfs to T11 raids are MASSIVE, not just small nerfs to help struggling guilds get to the finish line.
To me, learning that they are releasing T11 raids in their nerfed state is a massive turnoff.
i’m gonna be honest, if you found pre nerf lady vash hard, these bosses pre nerf would farm you into oblivion, the post nerfs are harder in pre bis gear than vash 100%
Every single time the content has been difficult in Classic the population has plummeted. The majority of the Classic playerbase does not want difficult content and Blizzard knows this.
They also know that most of the people who want the content to be difficult are the kinds of people who will stick around and continue to raid even if the content is easy. Just like they did in MC and BWL.
That is why they track the success people have and hopefully release the nerfs in a timely manner, but still release the raids in their pre-nerf states and leave us a few weeks to experiment with the hardship
What I meant is that pre-nerf Lady Vashj was harder than anticipated. It definitely gave many guilds that got used to the easy content in T4 a run for their money.
the t11 raids are going to be harder than anticipated because everyone thinks post nerf = easy but the reality is that all they’ve ever fought is easy bosses and these are harder than those, unless you killed 0% lich king
So why does that mean Heroic mode has to suffer? The content has to be SO easy for the Dad gamers that the non - dad gamers can’t even have their own SEPERATE difficulty?
Why is SoD doing poorly with its easy mode raiding?
Why didn’t TBC or Wrath classic come close to reaching the heights of Vanilla classic? Is it perhaps due to the fact that novelty as well as Covid + the state of retail created the PERFECT storm?
I’ll be a man of my word, because you did answer. But I would like you to elaborate. Why do you do LFR on retail if your ezmode needs can be met elsewhere?
On to that answer. I have mythic raided. A lot. I still enjoy it. For all of retails fails over the years, I still think when push comes to shove, they can design some incredible encounters.
Its not even a time commitment thing for me either. I used to raid mythic 8 - 9 hours but we managed to get Cutting Edge on a 6 hour weekly schedule. It simply comes down to two key factors.
I don’t like the rest of the game, I think M+ is poorly designed system and overworld + pvp feel completely abandoned in retail, while Cataclysm is one of the few expansions I genuinely liked PvP.
I’ve played with the same core group since BfA, and they’re currently not playing / raiding, and half of the fun is overcoming the challenge with close friends.
It did great when the even easier BFD was the current raid. It’s doing poorly for a variety of reasons. ST is boring, it’s on a week lockout and there’s nothing else for people to do outside the raid. Ulduar almost killed Wrath and TOGC brought it back to life. That’s telling enough about what people want.
Why was the game super popular when every single raid (MC-AQ40) was easier than even Karazhan was?
That ignores the fact that SoD was brand new. All of it was novel. Having multiple characters to raid on is much easier when you barely need to level.
Same thing with vanilla classic. Novel, ridiculous hype, long grind to endgame, covid. Lotttt of factors there. I’m confident people didn’t stay because they loved raiding. They loved the game as a whole.
From my understanding, the general population of the game did not spike from ToGC. Unique characters did though, because its when the RIDICULOUSLY easy catch - up mechanics came into the game. Nobody came back to the game because they love ToGC. Perhaps getting prepped for ICC, but NOBODY was like “oh ya ToGC that’s why I loved Wrath”.
But that’s past the point. Why do you think Heroic should be made easy as well? If normal is post - nerf and catering to your crowd, than your box is checked.
Why should the version of the raid that’s intent is to challenge the player, also follow suit? You’ve already got your loot pinata with normal.
If you wanted to make the argument for post - nerf normal mode, there’s validity to that. I would still disagree, but could certainly understand the merits behind it.
But Heroic? The only justification I can think of would be “the loot is slightly better and I want the best loot without trying” which is quite frankly, pathetic.
I’m not going to convince you of anything no matter what argument I make. The majority of players just want to raid with their guilds and friends they’ve made over the years to get the best loot without wiping endless on prog. It’s what they’ve come to expect and what they want.
People don’t want to settle for normal mode gear and that’s just how it is. If you want to make the argument for a “pre-nerf” toggle that gives you a Feat of Strength but doesn’t give any other incentive, that might be an idea Blizzard would have actually considered if they had time to add it.
Either way it doesn’t matter what we say here, post-nerf fights are set in stone. They’re barely making schedule as it is. Good luck in retail or FF14 or whatever you go play now.
Catering to players who want the best gear despite having no reason to have said gear, is silly. That’s how you slowly erode your game. Just look at…retail WoW. Convivence systems over the years have alienated so many players.
I think you, like many of your vocal minority, like to say “people” and “we” as if you represent the majority of the player base. But you don’t. Thank goodness, you don’t.
You just haven’t really given me anything more than an anecdotal “I speak for the majority, majority wants ez mode”. I’m still looking for good reason as to why heroic should be in a nerfed state.
Your only argument is that the insecure lazy portion of the player base will be upset that their purples are a slightly lower ilvl, your essentially saying telling people that they’re only allowed to play with the toddler toys, because if the big kids get their own toys, the toddlers will be upset.
PS: I don’t think there’s zero chance we get non - nerfed heroic. Its not a high chance, but i’m already seeing a TON of backlash.