Yeah, and then she changed. And her Warbringer pointed towards her staying that way, if only partially. But then Baine bringing back her whole brother suddenly has her turned all the way around again, as if Baine represents the Horde in any capacity. So now she’s right back where she started, minus Theramore, plus Kul Tiras. Her whole Though Jaina arc was pointless.
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the warbringers pointed to a villain bat and going full genocidal maniac, she then literally tells you that she finds healing with her family and giving her a reason to NOT go full vengeance to kill the horde at all cost. she once again has something to lose.
No, her whole arc is struggling to not go full daelin.
is not… “suddenly” is not like she hasn’t seen baine’s good faith before
because he did risked his neck for her, twice. he did saved her life.
and thats kinda the point when thrall ask what is different this time, she doesn’t trust the “people” of the horde, but she does trust people like baine who do the right thing.
that is why both anduin and jaina count on him to end the conflict in more or less peace, otherwise, the war will consume everyone.
Truer words have never been spoken.
This Horde is no longer the Horde, it’s the Diet Alliance.
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I’m gonna need a Garrosh equivalent to Baine that is just a relentless and ruthless Tauren that looks at everything that’s going on with The Horde and just goes
And then decides to take initiative and decree Baine as a Tauren no longer. Because he was never a member of the Horde. And his “For The Horde” rings even more hollow now.
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The Horde that was ready to fight the Alliance and do what was needed to survive could only exist as heroes in their own right when the Alliance wasn’t meant to be the paragons of virtue where any blame they have is overshadowed by Garrosh and Sylvanas’ decisions.
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You seem to be forgetting the Alliance lost a crapload of people in Naj’zatar. Right after Dazar’Alor, the Alliance was apparently ‘weeks from victory’. By definition, if the Alliance was that close to victory, they would have been in a position to demand the Horde defang as ‘victory’ would have feasibly allowed them to do that anyway. The situation was VERY different when Baine proposed negotiations, to what it was after 8.2.
On a side note, in 8.25 most of the Horde was still with Sylvanas. The rebellion was the minority of the Horde that time round. Sylvanas still had the support of the people.
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What the hell kind of logic is that? Being on the back foot is exactly why you’d negotiate. Since when has being at a military disadvantage been a deterrent to opening negotiations?
So they’d throw strategic consideration to the wind to do so? The sentiment is all well and good, but isn’t an argument against the validity of opening negotiations.
What does this even mean in this context? As I mentioned, Nathanos literally reports that the Alliance is about to win the war. This wasn’t some minor hiccup that Baine had a disproportionate reaction to or something.
Leaders engage in diplomacy. If it’s not a leader, it’s someone representing their interests. Again, why the freakout over him literally doing his duty by considering the possibility?
Oh, please. He’s obviously not going to be there permanently. He’ll be gone in a patch, or as soon as the scene ends. It’s baffling that you’d even entertain the idea that he’d be permanently stationed in Stormwind’s throne room.
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Hes still there after the scene
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Then he’ll be gone in a patch or whatever. Do you actually think that he’s just going to be there forever now?
Who honestly knows at this point. Even if hes there for a patch, thats still damaging
Who knows? Anyone who has bothered to think about it knows. It’s spectacularly likely that his being there is mostly for the purpose of this scene, and that it’s temporary by design.
You don’t score any points by throwing your hands up and declaring it to be an unknowable mystery of the universe.
Even if hes there, it doesnt serve to help with disconnected Alliance and Horde players.
What prime Alliance player wants a Horde core race racial leader in Stormwind, coloured green?
What Horde player wants their racial leader and one of their few last remaining important characters to be placed in an Alliance city?
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I mean Baine seems to be there as an ambassador for the horde council. It is a smart move on the Horde’s part: Baine already has a positive relationship with Anduin and is far more likely to get peace treaty terms favorable for the Horde than anyone else. I do not expect him to stay there forever, certainly.
It is probibly also a not so subtle signal of the dev’s intentions of, if not removing then significantly weakening the faction barrier. I would not be surprised if they at a minimum opened up cross faction grouping via battle.net friends in the next expansion.
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Do you think every Horde/Alliance player thinks the other faction has cooties or something? A faction leader showing up in the opposing capital for diplomatic reasons is new and relatively unusual (if nothing else) and, accordingly, interesting.
If you think the Alliance/Horde dynamic breaks down as soon as one stops having a red name and shouting at the other, then I’d say you’re hamstringing the setting terribly. If people are so wrapped up in the puerile we-rule-they-drool side of things that they can’t fathom any change to that dynamic - let alone tolerate seeing a character show up in a situation where it makes sense for them to show up - they just need to suck it up and move on.
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Man, i bet all of the night elf players are happy now.
Because doing this kumbyah thing is just pointless, when we will see more faction tensions down the line, along with a wsr at some point.
Its just levers
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They have a whole Tyrande plot thread open, which is given oxygen in this patch. As far as we’ve seen, it’s still unresolved.
You could also say that the whole war thing is pointless, because everyone will be doing the kumbayah thing again at some point. It cuts both ways.
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Yes the Tyrande plot which has night elf players mad that she looks to be villain batted.
Oh boy, they must be thanking th ground that Blizzard walks on.
Except this time is worse Mists of Pandaria with a far less interesting villain, especially when she has been forever playing 4d chess.
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Thinking a bit on this, a big part of the problem is that the dynamic largely doesn’t work in reverse. Baine in Stormwind “works” because Bliz has gone out of their way to establish Baine as friends with Anduin and Jaina. He can be in Stormwind because it’s pretty much a given that he won’t cause any problems for the Alliance. (Whether or not he’s an effective diplomat remains to be seen - Bliz has also established that he’s pretty easily tricked and bamboozled).
The problem here though is that there isn’t an Alliance Baine (aside from the current Baine, of course). There’s no leader that they could plop down in Org and expect to be treated in a similar fashion. First, none of the Alliance leaders have a similar relationship with a Horde leader. Second, at this point in time, it’s pretty much guaranteed to feel that their presence isn’t there for diplomacy but rather enforcement or some ulterior motive.
The “best” fits are a bit of a stretch. A Nelf might have worked had Teldrassil not happened (though Shandris in Org would be a bit amusing). Tirion is the only human who would be received well, but he’s quite dead. Having a delegate in Silvermoon or Nighthold fails because this would ultimately feel like another attempt to get the respective elves back into the Alliance. Also, no one cares about those cities anyway. So, who gets stuck with the delegation job?
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Sapphronetta and Kelsey could be hanging out with Gazlowe and Grizzek in Oggrimar.
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I had to google those first two names and they seem pretty worthless to me. I think that’s the problem Kurogasa is talking about, though. It just wouldn’t make sense for any of the alliance leaders to want to hang around Orgrimmar.
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