Possible revamp for EK and Kalimdor next exp

I know this post may seem provocative, due to the controversy surrounding the possible new capital of the kaldorei being in the Dragon Isles, but my intention is to discuss something that I perceive as increasingly likely, an eventual revamp of Kalimdor and EK.

Therefore, my post comes with an invitation to the community, that if possible help to provide signs that a revamp will happen.

In my case rather than providing screenshots and the like, I guess as you all know Blizzard is famous for providing clues in quests and other events of what the path for the near future will be.

And in the case of the orcs’ heritage, we see that the forest destroyed by Daelin Proudomore in Rexxar’s campaign in War3 will be rebuilt, thanks to our character’s actions.

In addition, in the human heritage quest, we see a kind of epilogue to the Westfall situation with potential developments involving the region.

Another event that seems to have no major consequences but that caught my attention was the union of the nightborne and blood elf heads of state, signaling a deepening of ties between the races, something that at some point would be more successful if it was reflected ingame.

It is obvious that several details that could suggest a possible revamp were left out of my brief post, but I hope that other players feel invited to discuss this topic and share impressions that can provide some kind of clue as well.

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Well, I do not know that Kalimdor is in the cards, but the lingering issue of rebuilding Lordaeron City and Gilneas would very easily lend themselves to a revamp of the Eastern Kingdoms. Both would work well as expansion hubs.

I somewhat feel that a whole world revamp all at once would be way too over ambitious.

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A world revamp would be nice and I do expect we’ll get one.

It would even make sense for it to happen next expansion given that the next expansion will release on this game’s 20th anniversary.

But I won’t hold my breath on it given how much work would be required for them to pull it off, especially if they go full revamp rather than just individual zone revamps.

I don’t know if people here frequent the mmo-champion forum, a site as old as WOW itself, I took the liberty of putting here the main points raised by a post made there with the same theme, and of course the credits belong to @Worldshaper.

11.0 - Reshaping of the World

A world revamp could revitalize a fundamental aspect of the game, Azeroth itself. It is a chance for Blizzard to increase the size of the playable game for endgame characters manifold, and to future proof it for many years to come. However, a world revamp also has its drawbacks. It is a costly endeavour, and hard to get right. Opinions differ on whether the story should move forward to new places, or embrace the old.

This thread is an attempt to, as objectively as possible, look at the clues and speculate about the future potential of a world revamp.

Part 1 - Interesting facts and potential clues that might suggest a World Revamp

  • The Updated Battlegrounds of WSG and AB - During Battle for Azeroth, two original battlegrounds were remade with completely updated art assets: Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin. These assets weren’t used anywhere else to my knowledge. It seems strange to go through all of that effort for such a small part of the game. That said, the expansion did feature warfronts. It is possible that a planned warfront taking place right on the border between The Barrens and Ashenvale forest got scrapped. Using the assets in Warsong Gulch would make sense in that scenario. The Arathi Highlands did recieve a warfront in the expansion, and the same assets were used in an updated Arathi Basin battleground.

WoW Classic: The Ongoing Preservation of Old Expansions - Vanilla, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and by the sound of things also Cataclysm will soon all be preserved in the form of WoW Classic. Who knows, Blizzard might continue with Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, and so on. What’s more, the old expansion questing experiences are now also accessible in the form of Chromie Time. Whenever a player feels like it, he or she can go back and play the game as it was at a particular time. This might be a case of preserving the game in its different states, catering to players’ wishes, or even laying the bedrock for a fundamental change to the retail game. Whatever the reason, much of the game has been preserved one way or another, so Blizzard could do a world revamp without anybody really complaining about lost content

  • The Upcoming Shortage of Game Real Estate - After nearly two decades, WoW has finally reached a point where almost all of the old lore has been explored once or twice, and the landmasses known to us are placed on the in-game map. There are a few exceptions, and Blizzard could obviously create more landmasses. But there is less emotional investment with brand new lore, which might impact sales. It might be more economical at this point to look at what they already have and consider how they can re-use it. Both in terms of development costs and sale figures.

  • The Slow Overhaul of Old Assets - Over the last few expansions, Blizzard has taken a look at and redone a vast amount of old assets. From critter models and monsters to buildings, flora and fauna. While it could just be a case of needing to populate their new expansions with fresh models that feel like they belong on Azeroth, it’s certainly interesting. Some of the updated assets are distinctly “Vanilla”, as in belonging primarily to The Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

  • The World is Waking Up - As the Dragonflight announcement news made clear, the world is “waking up” with the next expansion. This is seen on the Dragon Isles as well. The elements are raging, and the dragons return home. In the cinematic, we see the isles return to their former glory as the sun breaks through the clouds, water start flowing in the aqueducts and nature seemingly springs to life again.

  • The Sword in the Stone - Ion has been very coy about the Sword of Sargeras, sticking out of the Wound in Silithus. In fact, it seems to be a bit of a running joke among developers at this point. When asked about it, Steve Danuser has twice let us know that the sword will have a role to play in the future. While it’s certainly fully possible that the sword could simply remain in the planet forever as a testament of what once transpired there, it is hard to escape the feeling that having a giant sword the size of a mountain stuck in Azeroth kind of ruins the horizon just a smidge. If it were to be removed, it would logically fit to do so when the world is healing, being restored, and getting rid of all its ugly scars.

  • The Capital Cities are Getting Updates - With patch 9.2.5, we’re seeing lots of development on the story for the Night Elves and Forsaken. Both are missing a home since Battle for Azeroth, and both are seemingly getting one back soon. For the Night Elves, this could happen through the seed gifted to Tyrande by the Winter Queen, which might grow into a world tree similar to Teldrassil or perhaps more like one of the trees found in Ardenweald. For the Forsaken, it seems likely that The Undercity will be restored. Other capital cities have seen some changes as well. Increased weather effects in Stormwind and Orgrimmar, for example. In patch 9.2.5, it is suggested that the Forsaken might pull out of Gilneas for good, which leaves another candidate for an update.

  • The 20th Anniversary of WoW - In 2024, WoW turns 20. What’s more, the next expansion after Dragonflight will be the game’s 10th expansion. It could be a smart business move to not only celebrate the game in a major way, but also refresh it for the next 20 years and 10 expansions. A good way to do this might be to revamp the original landmasses, the core of Azeroth. Assuming Dragonflight comes out in Q4 2022 or Q1 2023, it will probably be time to announce 11.0 in Q4 of 2023 or Q1 2024. Timeline-wise, this seems like a good match.

  • The Trilogy of Trilogies - If you look at the history of the game and its expansion packs, you are able to notice a bunch of possible patterns in the way new content is designed. One such theory says that TBC, WotLK and Cata were the original three expansions. Then newer ones simply continued their stories. So for TBC, it started the Burning Legion arc, which continued with WoD and concluded in Legion. WotLK on the other hand started the “Death” arc, which arguably continued with Sylvanas’ harvest of souls during BfA, and concluded in Shadowlands. That leaves us Cata and MoP. Dragonflight certainly seems to encapsulate a lot of what made these two expansions special to many players. A continent veiled in mist, lots of dragons, raging elementals, and so on. What it misses is a world revamp. So the question now remains, will 11.0 continue to build on the legacy of Cata and conclude its “trilogy”?

  • The Full Portal Room - In the Stormwind/Orgrimmar Portal Rooms, there is currently one free slot (as of July 2022). It is likely that a portal to Valdrakken will occupy this slot during Dragonflight. So that leaves us with zero additional empty slots for the expansion after that. Now, of course Blizzard would rebuild the Portal Rooms or reshuffle a few old portals. But these locations were built fairly recently, so you’d imagine they knew going into it how many portals they would need in the years ahead. So why isn’t there a need for a new portal in 11.0? Could it be because Azeroth will be revamped, and our traditional capital cities will serve as player hubs again?

  • Dragonflight’s Case for World Content - One striking thing about Dragonflight is the focus on world content. It remains to be seen if it’s evergreen or if it’ll run its course once we’ve finished our Renowns and so on, but as of about a week into the expansion it seems clear a lot of players love the chance to simply explore and have fun - and they’re making their voices heard on social media. Blizzard likes to use content as a testbed for further content down the line, so it’s not hard to imagine this expansion as a test for what could be a more permanent living world in 11.0.

Eastern Kingdoms Receiving Updates - Shortly after Dragonflight’s launch, a Senior Game Designer working on WoW made a couple of cryptic tweets, in which she suggested work was being done on the old Eastern Kingdoms map in their tools. She clarified she makes quests, not zones. But it’s still interesting. Could this just be for a couple of quests set in EK during Dragonflight, or is there more to it?

Part 2 - The case against a World Revamp

Let’s not beat around the bush. There are lots of reasons to dismiss all of the above. A world revamp is an expensive, risky move. While it doesn’t have to play out like it did in Cata, I’m sure a lot of people (including some working for Blizzard) blame the prior revamp for WoW’s declining subscriber numbers in 2010.

Developers have even said that changes to the world are likely to be made in small chunks, when the time is right. Perfect examples of this are to be found in Arathi Highlands, Darkshore, and Silithus. While at this pace it would take many decades to revamp the entire world, it’s still plausible that this is the route Blizzard is taking.

Blizzard’s philosophy when making new expansions for the past 15 years or so seems to have been that new is better. Old continents have been left behind in favour of more modern experiences, that are probably more easy to work with for new game systems (and more fun to work on for new developers).

So it’s absolutely possible that while Blizzard might hear and acknowledge the wishes of players wanting a revamp, it’s simply not something that’s on their radar.

Part 3 - What would a revamp look like?

But let’s assume for a moment that a World Revamp is coming. What, then, would it look like? I’d like to just convey one possible scenario for how this could work, just to show that it’s possible.

  • They decide to revamp only Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, because those are the most important continents.

  • Zones are combined into mega zones to cut down on workload and to create a more cohesive experience. For example, Ashenvale, Darkshore, Felwood, Hyjal, Moonglade, Winterspring and Azshara turn into Hyjal with Nordrassil as the Night Elven capital city. Across the sea, Quel’danas, Eversong Woods, and Ghostlands turn into Quel’thalas with Silvermoon as the Blood Elven capital city. The old zones will still be represented as subzones akin to Krasarang Wilds in the Valley of the Four Winds. So all flavour is preserved, but borders between zones can look more natural.

  • There are no longer thousands of quests and individual storylines. Instead, once you leave Exile’s Reach or your race’s starter area, you start a faction-specific story campaign that takes you across Azeroth. If you’re Horde you primarily explore Kalimdor with occasional forays into the Eastern Kingdoms, and vice versa if you’re Alliance. A bit similar to how it worked in Battle for Azeroth. What this does is it lets Blizzard replace the immense amount of old story and quest content with two new campaigns. In addition to this, there is definitely room for race- and class-specific campaigns. These could be lesser campaigns that play out alongside the main thing. There could also be a more meta-campaign for Azeroth available to both factions, but this campaign would probably be slower-paced and lurk a bit in the background until it’s time to shine. Heck, it might not be available until you reach max level.

  • While the old instances are preserved with Timewalking and Classic, they don’t really have to be included in the revamp. Dungeons and raids of the past could inspire new creations, but Azeroth has moved on and the revamp would just bring new instances.

  • The main source of content of each mega zones would be dynamic and evergreen activities such as world quests, events, temporary story quests, bounties, skirmishes, world bosses, and more. Once you complete the main campaign, you unlock dynamic world content across both continents.

It remains to be seen what Blizzard ends up doing, but it’s fun to speculate so let’s keep the discussion going for 11.0!

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Honestly I don’t expect a full EK and Kalimdor revamp. I mean certain zones when they did it in cata were not touched at all (Silithus, Dustwallow) and others only had minor changes (Elwynn Forest, Arathi Highlands). Not to mention the Blood Elf and Draenei starting zones and their respective next logical leveling areas did not get touched in Cata as well.

Then you had other zones where it felt one side didn’t get the full amount of content they should’ve. Hillsbrad for horde is an example since they got a flightpath at Strahbrad and nothing came out of it. Then you have Sunrock retreat in Stonetalon which serves no purpose anymore following Cata.

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That would be far too much effort to do. You can’t expect Blizzard to repeat cataclysm. Revamp of old zones means less resources for the content patches and raids.

And yet we got a full patch cycle for Cataclysm on par with previous expansions and a world revamp.

It’s more than possible. Especially since Blizzard Entertainment has rapidly expanded the WoW development team.

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What else is there to explore? Unless we travel to another planet to fight forces of void or even light, I don’t see how the lore can expand from where we’ve arrived without some kind of soft reset in the narrative.

The truth is that a revamp would not only serve to bring some nostalgia, it would also be a way to insert several different plots that could feed the game with themes that could be explored in the future.

In addition, if we look carefully at the rotation system of the M+ dungeons, it can already be said that there is evergreen content in WOW today, the tendency would be to expand on these bases, creating narratives that would use these assets in an even more complete way.

Dragon Isles was the last piece of content of these famous lost islands we had, there is no mention of any other lost continents in Azeroth, and I find the theory of the dark side of Azeroth to be something without any kind of evidence in the lore, being even more unlikely that a revamp.

And finally, the devs have already stated that their philosophy now is to expand from arcs that go through multiple expansions, this means using ingame tools that make the experience of experiencing the world even more vivid, like Dragon Isles that looks WOW again with players everywhere, participating in outdoor contents.

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Undermine and the south sea of course. And then there is the homeworld of the ethereals.

I see serious problems with these possibilities that you raised, an expansion based entirely on caves, considering that we will have an entire patch on caves?

About a world of ethereals, wouldn’t the color palette of that world have to use the purple color excessively, saturating the players? Also, cosmic threats is something nobody wants right now, after the SL disaster, why would we go to another world supposedly to kill void lords if Azeroth is the most important place in the universe?

And as far as I know, aren’t the southern islands Kul’tiras and Zandalar?

Plunder Isle the headquarters of the red clothed pirates and Tel’Abim where bananas come from. And we could return to Kezan with Undermine as the new main hub.

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Id say that speculating around clues is a bit pointless.
Blizzard has put in standby all kinds of plots in the past even if they hinted at immediate action i.e: Varian declaring that they would strengthen their holds around Gilneas at the end up MoP (something that was never reflected ingame even after all these years).

Would it be necessary to revamp the world? Absolutely.

Not only in terms of narrative, but also from a gameplay perspective.
Most of the zones have a very outdated ingame presentation, and we’ve already had several pivotal events that should’ve change key parts of the map.

Some areas that sorely need this revamp, are those stuck in the BC era.
Both Silvermoon and Exodar should be changed to represent their current status.

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I rather have it leave as it is. The threat of the alliance taking over Silvermoon is real. Since Alleria made it clear she will try to gain it back. Void elf fans already try to claim this as theirs.

I recall reading something that indicated that the full Cataclysm revamp was quite taxing on the teams creating the content… but of course, now I can’t find it anywhere…

But if my memory serves, I don’t know that they’d stretch themselves that thin again for the sake of the leveling experience which as we know, has been a lot less cumbersome over the past few years. I’m not sure it’d be worth them revamping the entirety of a continent (or two) that players may or may not level through for a few hours to reach max level and move on.

That being said, I’m sure we’ll see more revamping and improvements on a zone-by-zone basis as those zones become relevant in the story again. I think this would not only ensure those zones get preferential treatment, but we also won’t have weird dead-ends or gaps where they ran out of time or resources to finish certain parts. This would benefit both players and creators overall.

The most obvious and immediate spots to revamp that come to my mind would be Lordaeron and surrounding areas, Darkshore and Ashenvale, Durotar and the Barrens, Elwynn Forest and Westfall, Exodar/Azuremyst and Silvermoon/Eversong to name a few.

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No, she didn’t…

You really need to stop making stuff up/misinterpreting the lore.

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Yes she does. The void is pushing her to take the throne. But just as always you ignore these things.

I don’t think a full-on Cata style revamp will ever happen again, as much as the game does desperately need it. Blizzard talked a lot back when Cata was out about how much they underestimated the work needed to do all that, how resource intensive it was, and how it damaged their endgame content as a result. You can also see how some zones got hit by this, like how Alterac Mountains is completely empty and has no reason to ever go there at all, despite a Horde FP being added which implies they had plans.

Personally speaking I care way more about the leveling process than the endgame so that’s a tradeoff I’m more than happy to take, but I also know it’s not the majority opinion nor Blizzard’s own opinion.

The most realistic I think we can ask for is stuff like Arathi and Darkshore in BfA, a couple zones every now and then. Though again I’d personally much rather have leveling stuff than endgame stuff like those were, it’s just not where Blizzard’s priorities are.

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Not that Im in charge of Blizzard development or anything, but thats when you learn from the past and create your world revamp in parallel development to your next 1-2 expansions. Cata development started almost as soon as Wrath was launched, so they did a world revamp for 90% of the old world zones (Im including the Dreanei and BE zones here), added 6 more zones (9 if you count Vashjir as its 3 zones and TB as its 2). Now a lot was cut, sure, but whats where you learn.

Give it 4 years and I think we can get something done. As has been described, assets have slowly been updated, we were given a 5 year time skip, Dragonflight is fairly contained in itself, give us maybe another fairly contained expansion, add in that the WoW Dev team has grown significantly from Wrath, and Im confident they could do a revamp the proper way without all the cut content, corners, and bugs they had at Cata launch.

Hell, even if they need to recode from the ground up, parallel development for 6, 7, 8 years then until you can launch a game that wont break on itself. Its not like they don’t have the money to throw at it.

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No, I didn’t ignore that bit.

What you fail to recognize is there’s a big difference between what the void is telling a character to do, and what they’re actually going to do.

You seem to believe that because the void is telling Alleria to take the throne that somehow Alleria ‘has made it clear she’s going to gain it back’. She hasn’t. End of story.

Void whispers =/= Character intentions.

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It is literally the most obvious story Blizzard can tell after thix expansion is over. Void lords and all that stuff. And since Lor’themar is just a regent he will have no authority to reject Alleria’s claim.