I just did a timewalking for one of the cata dungeons, the one with Nozdormu at the end. We got the Obsidian Dragonshrine and the tank, no surprise, tried to skip the two patrolling groups of dragons rather than simply kill them. And, no surprise, one of the other players pulled the dragons anyways.
We spent more time wiping and recovering than we would have if we had just fought the stupid trash.
I see this garbage all the time in Necrotic Wake too. Someone tries to be “smart” and get around the trash, only we end up wiping because as a result, more groups get pulled.
If people would just pull the trash that’s in the way, it makes for a better, smoother, quicker, run.
I get that M+ requires some trash skips. M+ is not a part of my argument, that’s a highly coordinated thing between teammates. In regular dungeons, you aren’t timed, so just pull the trash that gets in the way and move on.
I’m also not saying full clear 100% all mobs in the dungeon. Just the ones that are in the way. Stop with trying fanciful skips that never work without good coordination and pull the trash. It’s just easier to fight them than to wipe because someone pulls the skipped trash when we’re attacking another group.
You can spend 5 minutes wiping and rezzing or 1 minute fighting a trash pack. Your pick.
In a heroic someone could be trying to learn/practice mythic routes so I’d give a bit of a pass there. I always try to plan around the fact that someone is going to screw up in non-M+ (and have backup plans for the inevitable pug luck there) but you’re totally right. It’s not saving any time or effort when it’s going to happen anyway.
If the tank is just assuming that people know to skip the trash I agree with you 100%, but if the tank says “we’re skipping that pat” then it’s on the other players to just not pull it.
Not sure about the dungeons, but I know that some of the packs in the TW raid were SIGNIFICANTLY overtuned, to the point of being harder than the bosses. Maybe they were trying to avoid those types of packs?
This problem is not unique to this game. Every MMO I have played people pull this stuff. They waste more time trying to save time that would be better served killing the mobs. It aggravates the hell out of me as well.
First one, sure, someone could be practicing routes - but that also requires the person intending on doing so needs to communicate that with the team, or for that matter, do it on their own time and not the time of 4 other folks with a “get in there and get out” mentality.
Second - Didn’t you know that tanks are pro? We all have Twitch streams and we are all awesome. Just because you cannot walk past mobs as precise as a laser, is not my problem. Who cares if it usually takes a hundred runs, with the same group, practicing the same route? You should be honored to be in the presence of a pro. The tank should not have to speak, at all, as you should already know what the tank is going to do, before he does it. Lern2Jedi.
Crowd control is for wimps. Stop using it. If you want to really want to demonstrate how pro you are, and get into the groups with the elite, slap a guild title over your head, that has something about gaming in it, start a Twitch stream and rage quit every group that wipes because you cannot be seen with such noobness. You’ll go far kid.
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((But yes, most tanks are a PITA when they could spend 10 seconds clearing a mob, but truly believe a PuG with zero coordination, can pull off a shortcut))
While what you are saying is valid, the counter argument is equally valid.
It’s not timed so that means no required trash kills. The problem usually is not the skip itself, but the after effects. Obviously say getting feared or knocked back into a pack that was skipped means you probably chose a weird skip in the first place. But it’s usually not that, it’s people taking corners like they are an 18 wheeler, healers and ranged dps standing way way back for no reason, people having no awareness of where they are and just strafe or walk back into a pack.
It’s a two way street, awkward skips don’t work well, and everyone needs to pay attention. Also to add on to what person above me said, it’s a good environment to practice skips that are needed in keys for everyone. If someone is screwing up a skip, rather than get mad about the skip, they should remind themselves that is a skill they will need to have eventually
While I tend to agree the counter argument is going to be “if you watched where you were going, you wouldn’t have pulled that”. When I tank I tend to pull anything I think is questionable, as I tend to not trust my fellow players to be able to walk in a straight line let alone one between two packs.
I never do skips when tanking TW . Assume the lowest common denominator. Assume there is dps or a healer that skipped that expansion, or doesn’t remember paths and/or boss mechanics. Assume they will butt-pull extra, too.
I was so happy that a mage was spellstealing Ozruk’s bulwark thing. Because I had never seen someone do that during a tw.
Edit: did the weekly on 3 tanks- did not see a single use of the essences. I would love to see trash melt with focus beam. Oh well.
I was just about to say this. I have 2 60 tanks and if I dont do skips I get yelled at by dps for wasting time and not skipping or being lectured about how important they are. Then they assume I’m a noob and tell me how to play the rest of the run.
Then a lot of the times that I do some skips the last person in the group always pulls extra stuff. I tend to wait for people to get passed certain parts before moving on because I assume that someone will pull extra, but sometimes dps pulls things that I didn’t even imagine would be pulled.
I do pride myself in being a decent tank, but this community needs to chill out and play their own damned game and stop trying to play for everyone else.
Those dragon packs were always so brutal, they were usually as hard as the boss back in the day, needed to always cc the casters until you were able to nuke them in full DS gear.
Necrotic Wake is easy to skip though; the Obsidian Shrine leaves very little room to sneak by if you get there at the right moment, and odds are good the tank will leave you in the dust if you died.
I support this so much as a Healer. Too many tanks just assume everyone knows what they want to do. Usually ends in a wipe, this tends to be more of a problem on Alliance since no one communicates, Horde tends to communicate more, but that just may be my experiences.
Sounds like tank privilege. Just because you’re tanking doesn’t mean you get to decide for the whole group what to do. There needs to be some discussion as in “does anyone mind if we skip this trash because…?”
