After the buff to Templar it is now better in every single instance of content, in single target, aoe, M+, raid, PvP. Please revert the random and unnecessary 15% Dawnlight nerf so we can actually use the other Hero talent tree for once, thanks.
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Is there any actual data/numbers to verify this?
When it was actually ticking in excess of 350k damage? Not happening.
Sim yourself. I come out significantly worse as Herald in both ST and AoE.
Top 50 Templars in m+: 3395 to 3213
Top 46 Heralds in m+ (too low for Murlok to track 50): 3046 to 2703
Templar has better ST and AoE DPS, and better priority burst damage. Wrathful Descent doesnāt have a target cap afaik (good for bigger pulls). Sacrosanct Crusade makes surviving mechanics in higher keys much easier; Eternal Flame pales in comparison.
It may be situational in PvP. Both trees feel useful to me.
Most high rated rets still playing heraldā¦ because the HoW proc hits just as hard as HoL
Thatās a pretty big exaggeration about HoW procs. No way they hit as hard as HoL. I believe both are nerfed in PvP and by around the same amount.
Also, in Shuffle, high-rated Rets have shifted towards Templar, and so Iād say our hero trees are already balanced pretty well against each other in PvP. Itās in PvE that the balance swings way in favor of Templar.
Ive been hit with a 2M HoW anshe proc in arena.
Not that common but its there and it procs constantly since rg puts dawnlights on everyone every few seconds. That procs needs to be gutted (why does herald have a bigger bettee HoW than templar?)
Templar needs big hammers as the spec is heavily incentivized to cast them because of shake the heavens
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Not saying sims are useless but arenāt necessarily accurate. There are too many examples on why that is.
Fair enough, but that can be because of preference, not necessarily because Templar is more powerful (although it seems to be a good indication). I was using Templar even when Herald was definitely superior at the time.
Seems like a fair assessment.
Agreed.
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Lol @ so much off the cuff information thrown in this thread.
According to archion, wowlogs, wowhead, and raidbots, templar is the goto for 99%, yes 99%, of content, especially heroic and above. Lol. There is over a 200k difference between templar and herald in st raid builds according to archion.
Look, i love herald. I think its a wayyyy better designed and rotational hero tree than templar. However, by the numbers, templar is vastly superior.
For ST, its all about that mastery and for mythic+ you have to hit that 30% crit cutoff to see templar shine.
For herald it was all about mastery with a buttload a haste right behind it. So, if your not seeing the numbers from templar, most likely your lacking in crit. I merely speak from my experience as that was my problem.
I would like to see herald buffed, tbh. I think they need to be reasonably even. I never really got why blizz would nerf one by 15% than but the other by 20%. Just buff one by 15% and nerf one by 5% and your going to have them reasonably playable.
But blizz doesnt necessarily think things through.
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99% of PvE content, just to be clear
Well of course
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Because it was ticking north of 350K damage. Thereās no way Blizzard was gonna keep that up.
You can nerf the tick and keep the hero tree viable without super nerfing the whole thing
Is that really an issue given that both Hammer of Light and Blessing of Anshe hit in the millions?
If the tick is an issue, then the danage pught to be put elsewhere. Maybe put in āwhile dawnlight is active, other DoT effects has % chance on peoccing a searing glare at your opponent if choosen in the talent treeā kinda deal. Searing needs help big time and fits in with the radiant hero tree.
Oh, I have no problem if they decide to buff Herald (Iāll take any buff that comes our way). Iām just telling on the reason why they did nerf it, which I understand. If they ever decide to buff Herald in other ways, Iām down for it.
But if they ever do, you know the rest of the community will come at us with pitchforks and torches.
They will run to āsimmingā as if that has any place in M+ especially for big pulls. Empyrean Hammer is so strong with its 125% crit effect now that spamming divine storm during AV with Herald just isnāt enough, especially since weāre forced to take the 8 second AV. The random proc for 4 seconds feels bad because as soon as it procs, you would be lucky to get off 1 maybe 2 attacks only if it procced while you were already over 3 HP, soon as you build 3/6/9% haste and dmg the buff is poof gone. Iām just speaking from experience. Templar absolutely destroys Herald in raid/M+ at all levels. Raiderio and Lorrgs clearly show this as well. Whatever āfixā they could implement would be nice, just make it so we can have fun with the other tree like it was during the first 2-3 weeks of launch. I sit at 35-40% crit depending on the dungeon and make it rain hammers, which is nice but i enjoy all the random hero tree talents (in Herald too) that give x,y,z a buff or cool effect, and would like to change it up from time to time but that is too much to ask in TWW. Let me know what you think
You say that buy every time i am in a m+ with a templay i crush their damage. My BM hunter and ret pally are fairly close in overall damage in m+. Templars because of the āmetaā have mare crap player flocking to it.
By the math and using sims might show it do more but in practical use it seems to lag in game outside the top 3%
I agree with this. I love herald of the sun for eternal flame. I never die
Iāve hit mobs for 6.5million HoL in mythic plus
Then you must be playing with bad players or just in low keys because i am usually top damage at the end of a 12/13/14 lol. The lower the key (+2- +10) Ret should always be top as our quick burst 30 second windows are OP in those scenarios. But as mobs live longer we get smoked on big pulls by real/meta specs