We spent years trying to get away from the playstyle of Voidform, Shadow finally got an amazing rework two weeks ago, and now that playstyle is being pushed again with Legacy of the Void.
It’s not fun going into your major cooldown and having your rotation literally devolve into a static 3 button priority list. It’s not fun ignoring Devouring Plague for upwards of 1/3rd of a fight. It’s not fun having to deal with a mechanic that has been proven time and time again to be massively flawed in most content.
Please stop.
33 Likes
Agreed if this becomes the meta we will have taken one step forward and two steps back
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I will never understand points of view that seek to take optional things away from those that want to use it. It’s a talent, dont take it.
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Absolutely. I dont think people understand what exactly something being ‘forced’ or ‘pushed’ on them means.
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Comes down to what becomes the new Meta really. Let’s face it there is always going to be the right talent to take in most situations. It is a meta after all. The issue I see is if they keep buffing this one talent what is the point of the other two? Even now I am questioning what is the point of the other two talents. 15% crit that decreases while in voidform? Why take that when I can get increased damage by 5%, increasing haste by 0.5% per second, and devouring plague dot duration reset? Similar issue with Surrender to Madness.
I would love to be able to not have a right answer of what talent to take or have one talent great for aoe situations and another for single target so that I feel like it is worth swapping talents. Right now as it stands why pick anything over Legacy?
Addition
Want to edit this to give some thoughts. I am not really in the boat of removing Legacy, but more in the camp of let’s make the choice a difficult one. I actually like the original Legion voidform and the idea of having something like it back. What I would do though here is remove the devouring plague interaction and potentially buff the haste to 1%.
Ancient Madness I have a couple ideas for. One is on crit it would reduce your next void eruption by x seconds. The idea is to get you into voidform quicker or at least have it back sooner. The other idea is if not that then have crits summon void tentacles to mindflay your target. Yes it would take away from a legendary for a bit, but the legendary can be changed. This later option would be regardless if in voidform or not. The first option would be only in voidform.
Just some ideas here on the level 100 talents.
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Agreed. I think this is a much better path for game health and player happiness. Op asking to remove the talent/playstyle so there’s no chance they will have to play it in the future if min/maxing was my hangup.
1 Like
People are concerned by how its vastly different design goals and spell interactions are going to impact tuning and balance for the spec more broadly. I think that’s a valid concern, though I do agree the answer isn’t just to remove it.
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If they’re going to tune LoTV damage by messing with ANYTHING OTHER than the LoTV talent itself - then they’ve learned absolutely NOTHING at all about why voidform had to go away to begin with, and this will be three expansions in a row.
EDIT:
Its not that I want to see it go, I’m very, extremely, worried that LoTV is great in raids and they start turning down the damage of the other things that we are using outside LoTV. It’s not that hard at all to imagine LoTV doing … what LoTV does (crushing the meters in corner cases), then blizz nerfing the spec itself by, say, turning down mind blast damage, bringing us the same problems we’ve had for the past two expansions where we just suck outside of raids.
14 Likes
They’re trying to cater to two-sides of the coin. Those who like voidform and those that don’t.
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I would agree, Shayera, only if the top tier talents weren’t all voidform related and a non-voidform using play style was actually more supported. As it stands they want you to use voidform. Just comes down to what flavor.
Personally I like voidform and look forward to using it more in SL. There is just no alternative for not using it.
Having just tested it on the PTR though… the Legacy of the Void does not mesh well with the new Devouring Plague. The reason is Devouring Plague consumes 50 insanity so casting one will basically knock you right out of Voidform.
I agree “people” are. Op however said it’s boring, remove it, which is what i was commenting on
Honestly it doesn’t seem so bad. I can see use in every talent in the row which is by itself a massive improvement over actually only taking legacy of the void. Legacy if it becomes viable will be the pick for patchwerk fights where you aren’t risking losing voidform to mechanics, and thats about it since its still the voidform you love to hate without lingering madness and crit per stack/dot damage per stack.
Legacy also has a problem as we’re losing sanity gen that was tuned to maintain voidform to begin with so if legacy becomes meta it’ll require a specific build to go all in on sanity generation to an extent that you wouldn’t normally need in new shadow. I suspect this means nightfae+mindbreaker+shadowfiend leggo/conduit. So you can maximize your one voidform.
Alternatively in any fight with adds its likely surrender to madness just wins, in its current state I would use it in m+ all the time, and probably have a good time doing it. New surrender looks fun.
Then we have ancient madness which works when the other two don’t, and also is probably the only one of the three that makes even a lick of sense in pvp considering imploding and being super vulnerable to cc are both bad traits for a pvp talent.
If this makes all three talents worth thinking about I’d say that so far so good, even if it means that I might wanna try out old void form on like two fights per raid.
1 Like
I don’t see how legacy will ever be satisfactory for the people that prefer legion voidform
It’s going to have to be inferior to new shadow or there will be uproar again. It’s like drain soul for affliction… It’s there as a token gesture, but it can’t really be allowed to be the superior talent
I agree, but I also feel that giving it the dot extension, and stacking haste is treading dangerously close to the balancing nightmare of original voidform.
If it gets to a point where legacy is the superior talent we’ll be back to square one again with people feeling forced into a playstyle they don’t enjoy, and Blizzard struggling to balance things
It almost seems like more trouble than it’s worth to try and keep it in line
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Firstly let me throw tribute to the ‘ideology’ of covenants; listen- FUN and RPG and FANTASY come first; and, let blizzard worry about ‘balance’. We should express our concerns about that sure…but that DOESN’T MEAN we should simply remove all the cool/fun stuff from the damn game over FEAR.
The game can be super fair and practical; but like, wtf are you even playing for then? like WAT
Trust in the fact that a tuning of ‘fairness’ …and who even cares?
I’m a min/max raider and fighting for this…btw…there’s a point where…FUN MUST EXIST for the GAME TO EXIST and retain a sub…AND gain new players
I played BFA surrender; and it’s up there in the few reasons WHY playing BFA was even worth it
The game…and life…is about that balance; I know- it’s super super hard for people to understand. Not degrading anyone; it’s just such a nuanced thing that hardly is recognized. But just ask yourself…is this a fantasy game? or NOT? Is this real life??? or just a game to have FUN IN.
A game exists for FUN first…and foremost- and I will die on a hill for that concept- mythic raider, min/maxer, WHATEVER- WAKE UP! The game must be compelling to play
There is yet a balancing problem that couldn’t be solved by ‘trying harder’ to play what you LOVE- the point is…to give CHOICES
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The concept of “Fun” is dictated by the rules that exist in order to enable “fun”. Those “rules” are the balancing nobs that keep everything in line and relatively “fair”.
Its not hard to imagine that a game with no rules will end up not being fun. You get the feeling of “fun” when you achieve results that are confined within the realm the rules of balance dictate.
This is a game build around rules. It is not a dream world where anything can happen. If it was, then it would cease to be fun because you no longer have the rules at which to measure the difference from one point to another and thus become meaningless. Without rules, you can be free, but it wont be fun.
So rules or “balance” should not come “first” it should come hand in hand with the fun and interesting ideas. You have to keep the rules in mind when creating “fun” or it becomes a pointless endeavor.
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it’s pixels and I demand WoW to at least be on par with real life; I get more out of real life than WoW beta- argue all you want. The beta is an unsalted cracker
And in the end; the truth is the truth- regardless of u arguing with me over it
The “truth” is that you cant just say I want X and make it so then “figure out balancing”.
The “truth” is that some things cant exist within the system build upon by said rules governing the system in order to maintain balance.
So one should be mindful of those rules and “balance” when trying to create fun.
Pixels are the things you see yes. But that is not what is governing the rules in the system that those pixels reside in.
8 Likes
you have what you want; just let the game give choices. why is that hard for you?
i fought for a better non-raiding world of shadow; why can’t u see the truth is in the middle?
do u know what a win/win is? do u know it’s possible?
let go of your fear…let it go
Balancing the game is admittedly challenging for Blizzard.
Is it more challenging to balance LotV with it extending Devouring Plague, or with it instead granting more haste?
I argue the former. And I’d need a very compelling argument for me to think otherwise.
1 Like