What it serves is to reduce bloat on many layers, system, interface, and player. Less bloat of useless keystones, less bloat on the interface to sift through and work through, less bloat on the system to balance, reward and categorize and monitor. Less bloat on players to organize, run, and manage their keystones and rewards and their goals. Benefit upon benefit all around
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Bottom layer keys already cater to casuals and low skill cap people. no we do not need to make 5+ easier for people. what do folks not understand that this is the ENTIRE POINT of keys, the challenge, the coordination, the problem solving, the dedication - do what you can and the rest well stay out. i do not understand this fixation with making everything accessible for everyone.
That is simply not reality. Not everyone is good enough for everything and that IS FINE. If you cannot handle it then stay in 1/2/3/4 - like thats completely fine and is specifically designed to be there for those people end of story
I pugged the entirely of my lvl 10s, every expansion, and started running with my guild group after i got mine done simply because i was ahead of them by quite a ways and had to wait for them to catch up, both are valid and completely doable if you have the determination to do so, it does not need to be dumbed down in any form.
Top end keys are not made for every player to do by virtue of existing, just the same as mythic raiding not meant to be for those except some of the most skill people in the game, and the lowbies go to RF/Normal and that is completely reasonable and fine.
Not everyone found those key levels useless though. I actually went through raider.io for DF S2 keys the other day in this (or a similar topic) and found that 18.35% of all keys run that season were below a +10. I specifically chose DF S2 to avoid the valor farming that was rampant before crests came along. That is not an insignificant percentage of keys; and it would have been higher if I included the +10 and +11 keys that also got the axe.
I will agree that the interface could have used an improvement to filter out key levels you didnât care about (beyond just needing to know you can type X-Y for a range). But can you honestly tell me that you didnât just set a filter of 15-20 (or whatever your upper bound was) as soon as you reached that level of gear?
What balance? Blizzard didnât rebalance the keys we got after the squish, just maintained the previous scaling starting from +12. Theyâd already done the work to create a scaling function for keys below that which they barely touched during their entire existence.
In an honest moment, do you actually feel this to be true? Or did you do like me and once you got well beyond the low keys you never even looked at those keys again? After the first week of the season, every key below a +10 may as well have not have even existed for me.
I disagree with most of the benefits youâve listed here. But even beyond that, at what point is it worth slightly less convenience for players that donât need those low keys in order to offer more levels for players to engage with the game? A player that starts new seasons mid-expansion at +12 are barely impacted, if at all, by the existence of +2 - +11 keys; but players who enjoy +2 - +11 keys get to enjoy playing those keys. If I include the entire range of keys that were removed, that would account for well north of 20% of keys run in the season; that is not a small percentage of keys that were completely lopped off for fairly nebulous value.
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what parts of m+ are you finding too challenging?
I am actually very curious in what it is you want. Are you talking about reducing the difficulty and making max level gear easier to obtain with harder challenges rewarding cosmetics like final fantasy?
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yeah this is bizarre to me. you hardly ever see threads asking to make mythic raid easier (sorry, âmore accessibleâ!) but for some reason itâs constant with m+
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You see it but mythic raiders are extremely specific when they have issues. With raiding there is a growing demand to see a large portion of the " weak aura" bosses pruned. Ones with mechanics that instantly kill the raid that require an absurd amount of coordination in a short window.
Broodtwister, tindal, smold, echo of nef etc.
There are complaints but they are extremely specific.
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Iâm curious whatâs so âeliteâ about M+.
Apart from high-end key pushers who do things like min-max and co-ordinate better, M+ dungeons are very accessible at lower key levels. âRegular gamersâ arenât sad sacks who need everything dumbed down.
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oh for sure. those are people who already do the content and who have specific issues, as you said. not blanket ânerf thisâ from people who only heroic raid, for example. and of course plenty of people who do raid mythic would love to have flex group sizes. no shade to those types of requests.
but not at the level that drops the best gear, which is all these complaints boil down to.
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I think you missed the whole point of my post here
I was laying out how to better-allocate the challenge to the various player skill levels
Keep in mind a â1 shotâ isnât universal and depends on the persons gear and passive/active damage reduction talents for their class/spec.
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Ahh I understand now.
If I had to guess it mirrors the kind of egos that build up in pvp. There is less of a clear picture of why a group fails in mythic plus and less of a difficulty curve then heroic to mythic.
I imagine it creates odd pockets where people get lucky and push past their skill level without realizing it then blame others for things they fail to realize was on them ( interrupts stuns etc).
Its like having someone who has never gotten past 1600 rating explain to me on my alt who has gotten to 2400 that ive no idea what im doing.
Sorry for the word salad am at work so just letting my thoughts flow.
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+10âs are basically inaccessible for a dramatic portion of the WoW population.
+7âs and +12âs are no doubt a good jump up in difficulty but you can atleast do 5âs and 6âs to train for 7âs and 10âs and 11âs to train for 12âs.
The difficulty jump though from 9 to 10 is way out of line.
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Turns out, the majority of gamers arenât sweaty pushers, but chill vibe-rs instead.
M+ is only getting its just dues.
Delves will continue to overshadow them, because theyâre inherently more fun, at least to me and many others.
The M+ community is the biggest repellent, itâs not the content itself. Itâs the people.
Itâs the lack of folks wanting to wait, and wanting to learn, and help newcomers in, thatâs the reason why M+ is dying.
Itâs just not friendly, and MMOs are supposed to be about lending a hand and helping overcome adversity.
I still stand by my opinion that WoW was a better game, certainly a better MMO, in the earlier days when most players could clear all content.
It was just easier to make friends that way. (And it was blatantly more fun.)
Arenât they always?
I canât deny running sevens for Hero-track loot, eights for crests, and 10s for Myth-track Vault gear is a pain the backside if youâre living the PuG life. However, itâs still doable if you play your spec well and have a high tolerance for pain. Better yet, you can - and should - join M+ communities and guilds to avoid raw pugging all together. M+ and WoW in general is a lot more fun if you run with people you know instead of complete strangers.
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M+ keys up to 7 are for regular gamers. The problem is Blizz doesnât ever come out and say that. They also made that problem worse by making M+ up to 10âs fairly easy for 2 expansions and then pushing regular players out of the rewards they used to get. They should own up to it and tell their customers that they donât expect casual pugs to be able to easily farm mythic track anymore.
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I miss when we could pull the entire first chunk of the dungeon into a boss and pop hero and we wouldnât autowipe in a okish group because the first chunk of the dungeon didnât have interrupts that would randomly one shot a player/the whole group and tanks were generally immortal.
Thinking about the start of maw of souls vs start of stonevault makes me feel like the focus on what the highest end can do is detrimental to core m+ experience.
Raid has the same problem, in a sensible world the world first race would end in a week because of the degenerate stuff high end guilds pull make it so they have enough gear+having actual teams for designing weakauras in real time, but instead tuning has to account for the world first race and you have mythic raid and cutting edge bosses.
What I donât like is that if youâre low-skill, nothing in the game is designed to challenge you, teach you mechanics, and make you better. The one thing I felt did that was Mage Tower, and I actually got a lot of the skins. But Mage Tower didnât make me better at anything but Mage tower.
Yup.
Itâs either overworld brain-dead content, or itâs hard to the point where itâs out of reach.
Thereâs little in-between lol.
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It is for regular gamers, itâs just too many regular gamers play DPS, and dime in a dozenâd themselves out of being able to play.
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