I love this spec but it really doesn’t feel fun or rewarding to play right now.
I feel like our CDs are just not up to par, 1m CDs like Divine Toll and Final Reckoning aren’t even noticeable when used. Other classes have buttons like Touch of Death, Breath of Sindragosa, Convoke, you notice when these go off, why are Rets so lackluster?
Avenging Wrath/Crusade has it’s own problems, it’s a decent CD but our entire damage profile revolves around it and during it you might not even be the top DPS.
AOE gameplay is just clunky and when you do pull everything off correctly it doesn’t feel like it. Dropping 2x Consecration and then having to Divine Storm on top of it to get maximum damage only to have the tank move the mobs or some mechanics forces you out of of position feels horrible. Exorcism might be the worst button in the game, no visual or sound that lets you know it’s been used, damage is pathetic upfront and if mobs die too quickly you don’t even get maximum reward out of the dot. A big problem is that you have all sorts of different AOE caps, Divine Storm is 5 targets, Wake of Ashes/Radiant Decree is 5, but less damage to secondary, Consecration I think uncapped, Exorcism is 7. Would be nice if all these abilities hit the same amount of targets and that would preferably be 8, not sure why so many melee specs are 5 when being melee you are usually in the most danger.
Defensives and movement are extremely bad. Shield of Vengeance being the goto choice but still being on the GCD makes it extremely difficult to use during emergencies. Divine Steed just sucks, CD is too long and the duration is too short. You might have to use both charges for 1 mechanic and then you have no options for 45 seconds.
This is a huge problem, if I’m designed to be slow, yet still somehow squishy. I need to have the be the best at damage, yet despite our “good damage” we are not top single target or top AOE. Then the moment these drop we hit like a noodle
Pallys are in a really bad spot I’m not gonna lie, but if you time all your burst you can do decent. The issue is the burst is all about lining up your spenders into an 8 second tiny window which is really unfortunate.
Something needs to be done for sure, the talent tree needs a lot of work and ability bloat is also a huge problem. Need to go back to the drawing board and why is consecration even a ret thing? Why so squishy outside bubble and SoV you are dead, WoG healing for 20k lol. Not to mention divine steed 4 second duration and doesn’t even remove movement impairment. Its really a big jumbled mess of a class right now.
You can see this pretty easily looking around how many people even play paladin in general now as well. The talents are a disaster.
Ret has always been a class/spec, this hasn’t been so true in a VERY long time.
Last night was the first raid. I did 500 more dps than a warlock about 15 ilvls behind me and 11k less than a monk 4 ilvls above me. It took both casts of charger to get out of any movement effect and I died multiple times to general damage because I had no mitigation available. Way too many buttons to press for way to little return. I love playing Paladin but last night was the first time I can say it was just not fun.
I did two m+ after and last expansion i could compete with all similarly geared players. Last night I was fighting for last place with the tank.
I can’t talk about raid as my team raids this weekend but as for m+ using a more AoE build I was competing well on boss fights though not first place. my bro who is a damn good demo lock and spec for ST would pull ahead mean while I dominate in AoE pulls. Seems pretty close to me
Ret DPS is actually better than it’s been in a long time. We do have rotational bloat with just a lot of buttons to push and 0 downtime, but overall we are strong in damage. We are using 4 cds now and that can be a lot to track and manage, but if utilized properly, it allows you additional smaller peaks in between your wings windows, for more consistent damage. We used to do absolutely nothing for 2 mins in between wings, this is an improvement.
However, our biggest problems BY FAR are just lack of defensiveness and mobility. We should be a lot harder to kill imo. Our mobility is bad but you have to sacrifice some things, idk, I’m not overly unhappy with steed.
It’s really not, it’s about the same and in raid it’s probably 10% ahead of where it actually sits due to progression and people dying al the time proccing Ret aura. It also takes too much effort to just be middle for another expansion.
I can’t just hit Wings and do big damage, gotta use Wings, Seraphim, Final Reckoning, and Divine Toll. It’s nice to have some kind of rotation but other classes hit a button like Touch of Death or Blade Flurry and just instantly surpass me with the tiniest amount of effort is no fun and certainly doesn’t feel rewarding when I execute my rotation perfectly.
Consecration shouldn’t be on GCD, you should be able to keep it up constantly if its stuck as a static ground effect, it’s damage isn’t out of control to where having it up 100% of the time would break the game.
Exorcism sucks as an ability, rather it be a passive that dots when you use a HP spender if it’s gonna remain in the game.
Divine Toll is an absolute joke and without Ringing Clarity it’s probably the worst 1m CD in the game for ST. I’d rather see Judgment cleave from Legion return and hit 5 targets.
Final Reckoning, I like this ability but the 50% damage buff it provides to HP spenders needs to be trashed and that damage should just be returned to them baseline. Maybe change it so that during the 8 second window every HP you spend and hit a target with reduces the CD of Wings.
Up until now and from MY M+ perspective, it’s better DAMAGE WISE than last expac.
Gameplay? Worst it’s been in a long time.
And to your point, it feels gross that we have this bloated setup to execute and see a Monk Touch and go even higher than they already are.
Consec just feels bad, it should follow us or be off GCD as you said. FR should drop a consec and Sanctify should be activated by ALL spenders.
That alone would remove from the awkwardness of the rotation.
Exo should have just been a AoE replacement for BoJ. Would have made every other BoJ talent way better and a possible proper build out of them.
Ringing clarity was so Op it made Divine toll dominate in both AoE and ST fights and there really wasn’t much of a choice for for legendaries because of it. I completely understand why it was Removed. If you don’t like it in ST fights then put your talents points into final verdict or something that’s the whole point of a talent tree. But it was just too strong.
All of the options in the talent tree are either mediocre or bad, you have to be the first person I see calling it “OP” outside of S1 pvp scenarios, which were handled properly.
This has to be one of the dumbest non answers I’ve seen in a while, if you want to go cheer at blizavision for everything they do go elsewhere, there’s a reason both high end and low end players don’t like ret’s current status.
Legendaries had nothing to do with Ringing Clarity?
Except you can’t reach Final Verdict because it’s 3 points vs 1? You pretty much are forced into Divine Toll because there is no better option for 1 point.
I dunno what your definition of “too strong” is but guessing it’s not based in reality. Convoke is still available for Druids and that was by far more broken than Ringing Clarity and Divine Toll.
Whoops you’re right I was getting abilities confused that’s my bad but that doesn’t change the reason. It was still way too strong. Right now Divine toll is use even in ST builds, now imagine adding ringing clarity to it. Why would anyone choose any talent over it. You think it’s dominant now? It would be completely op vs any other talent.
What needs to happen (and most like will) is when blizz does their next tuning rounds the other talent will be buffed up to be more competitive.
But absolutely ringing clarity would push DT to OP status
No one is choosing anything else anyways unless they are bad? I don’t really care if its “OP” it shouldn’t be a 1m CD for 1 Judgment, sorry if you don’t see how bad that is but I can’t force you to.
Hence the tuning I mentioned. Blizzard already stated before DF launched that they will keep monitoring talents being used and make adjustments to the talents not getting selected. The point of the talent to was to give players a choice but the revamped talent system was obviously going to be a balancing nightmare. But you’re suggesting rather than buff the underperforming talents up you want to buff up the meta one even more? Sorry that’s not right
Whatever dev is in charge of the spec/class needs to go. Like, REALLY needs to go.
It is impossible for someone with some modest understanding of game mechanics to think a 1 min cd judgment as a talent ability that is at the end of a row is acceptable design.
I don’t mind Divine Toll without Ringing Clarity conduit effect and just Resonance if it was in the class tree. I don’t understand why all 3 specs have divine toll that work the exact same way, even in the choice nodes, and we have Dusk and Dawn that almost no one used (unless you got it as an epic power in Torghast).
class/spec, this hasn’t been so true in a VERY long time.