Honestly bro IDK why the “balance team” cant figure stuff like this out. I do regular MW damage with wings and summer rolling… I basically have to drop ashen hallow to do MW/ disc damage. I say ashen hollow because summer is on a pretty long cd, and I pretty much press my blessings ON cd. I’m not even gunna whine about our healing, even though it’s sub par we have tools to deal with keys up to like 14s (see ellesmere). However, our damage has been trash all xpac. Before anyone says anything I press shield of the righteous at least 150-300 times a dungeon. We sweating fam, sweating hard for like 250-300k dps. As I watch monks doing like 600k Single target.
Time for you all to flame me. However, on the off chance someone who deals with balance sees this please look at logs, key runs, numbers etc… HPAL CONSISTENTLY underperforms with damage. Honestly it would just be nice to have positive feedback from all the work we have to do to do more that 200k
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Coincidentally, I was thinking about creating a topic exactly about this. To be honest, HPAL’s healing is really good (let’s see when I lose the 10% Holy Shock bonus from Season 1, but I don’t think it will change much). However, the damage is still terrible; my MW Monk does almost twice the DPS. I haven’t tested my Disc yet, but I believe it should also be doing twice as much. Once again, the balancing team falls short.
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It’s kind of the weird reality of how the spec is overall designed. If our damage is not subpar, it tends it had the knock on effect of contributing to our healing, which could throw us to the moon and make us horribly busted in a bunch of content.
If we look at our overall breakdown it’s kind of easy to see why. A lot of our damage comes from consecration, which is fine, since we gotta be healing anyway, but the time we have downtime to DPS, holy shock and SotR do close to nothing.
Tuning for both of those abilities is off.
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disc is just as gross as MW honestly if not more, they just do things different lol. I think (not terribly keyed into the season yet). The damage profile for disc is still largely built around aoe. So they absolutely crank aoe pulls then fall behind single target whereas MW is busted ST, and does decent aoe. but we do jack shiz in either. like a ST fight where you cant SOTR and most your shocks are going into your team I’ve done like 150k… 150k bro and MW do like 600k o.0
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I think Blizzard has found itself in a tricky situation when it comes to balancing healer damage. That’s because most healers are generally tuned around passive and active damage and those two things are wildly different.
- Paladins deal passive damage through Judgment, Crusader Strike, and Consecration, while Holy Shock and SotR is active damage.
- Druids deal damage passively through their DoTs, while kitty weaving is their active option.
- Whereas, MW and Disc have a smaller gap between full active and full passive damage. They’re nearly doing full active damage all the time whereas other healers experience a significant drop in damage when prioritizing healing. Not to mention, as a pack size gets larger, MW and Disc damage naturally goes up and therefore their healing also goes up. Other healer’s damage would usually go down as the healing requirement goes up.
On top of that, most healer damage potential is closely tied to their healing output. If more globals are spent healing to meet the healing requirements, fewer are available for active damage spells like SotR, resulting in lower overall DPS.
For healers like these, Blizzard has two ways they could impact their damage:
- Buff their healing. If a spec is generally behind on HPS, they could buff their healing which allows them to spend fewer globals on healing, freeing up more for damage.
- Buff their passive or active damage.
We saw this in Dragonflight Season 2, where rolling nerfs to both healing and damage left Holy Paladins damage struggling by the time season 3 came around. They had effectively nerfed our damage potential from both ends and had to buff spells like Consecration to compensate.
For MW and Disc, damage is inherently tied to healing. If Disc is underperforming in HPS, Blizzard must decide whether to buff their healing buttons or their damage abilities.
For other healers, damage tuning is not forced onto Blizzard as much - unless it’s massively over performing.
I don’t actually think Blizzard keep healer damage that front of mind. But even when they do decide they need to buff something they have to decide whether a particular healer’s issue stems from HPS tuning, active damage, or passive damage. Overbuffing active damage could lead to excessive DPS when fully focused on damage and could have lasting impacts on the damage tuning when HPS is retuned going into the next season etc.
I honestly don’t know how Blizzard can resolve this without constantly reviewing healer damage and it just doesn’t seem like they care that much about it. MW and Disc by the way they are designed just do 90% of their active damage for free and other healers are fighting a HPS, active vs damage fight.
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I get where you’re coming from here, but honestly how hard is it to buff the active damage of druid, hpal and rsham? like just buff rip/ bite, SOTR and concecration and sham meatballs/ flame shock. I honestly think even if I used every holy power for SOTR on a fight I would still do less damage than a MW/ Disc. I think holy shock is fine honestly it hits pretty hard and is worth the sacrifice.
The big point I was trying to make is every one of the afformentioned classes sacrifices globals at least to heal. When they do damage 100% ignoring their healing all together and they still cant outdamage the passive dpsing healers there’s a HUGE issue.
All this is ignoring the lower HPS hpals have to suffer through because the dweebs on the dev teams wont listen to us and get rid of dev aura. Which most HPALS advocate for because we’re tired of that being the excuse for us having lower throughput.
Ultimately though I find it pretty unacceptable honestly. Every class has a team that monitors/ works on it. There’s ZERO excuses in my opinion outside of these people being completely out of touch with their game/ the users of said game. And I honestly think blizzard should take a more proactive approach on balancing healers/ tanks because those classes usually gate parties. If you make healing more satisfying and enjoyable over more classes ques will be filled faster, and people will have less to complain about. Same goes for tank. but once again we’re in a situation where in mythics only 1 or 2 healers or tanks are played at a high level because they’re just better.
Truth be told I do feel like healer balance is ALOT better this tier than previous ones, and blizzard has done a good job there. Just let people feel some satisfaction for pressing their buttons. like I said over 200 SOTR casts and 20k dps. I’m sorry but that’s ridiculous.
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Off topic, but I’ve always thought Holy should have its own unique holy dps spender instead of SotR. Not sure what the sentiment is on that.
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Unless I’m mistaken, everyone thinks that. It’s absolutely stupid that our main damage spender is attached to a shield, that we gain no real benefit from while also having 2Hs in our loot tables that we can’t use because we need to a shield to use SotR.
The main question is what do you give Hpal instead? Personally, my thought was changing LoD to be a damage+healing spell (SotR is the same right now but sucks butt at the healing part because they keep nerfing Lightforge Blessing to hell and back). But that comes with its own problems.
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They need to remove shield of the righteous and implement exorcism as a holy power dump. Does more damage to one enemy but can cleave up to 5. Instant cast btw, not this stupid denounce cast time crap.
Then, since we’re getting 2hd into swords a lot. Bring back the armor bonus from hand of tyr in legion so we aren’t super squishy.
Up a few values and fixed.
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LMAO My account got silenced for my long reply to this thread. imagine silencing people for speaking the truth. Lemme throw out some insight. Ellesmere, possibly the best HPAL in M+ is currently doing 245k DPS. It’s absolutely laughable.
I think the idea of LOD being dps/ healing is a great idea honestly. I mean almost all healers have a spell that does healing and damage. WHY should hpal be different? because we have dev aura? and using LOD would still be an HPS loss, but a dps gain. So it’s kinda the best of all worlds. we’re tired of doing 20k SOTR
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Only doing 7’s at the moment, but there are times when healing requirements are low and I get to feel like I’m not contributing to the group at all. Holy dps is so low I could stop trying to dps and it wouldn’t change the outcome of the key at all.
Why are there pulls in M+ when a holy paladin can feel like they’re contributing absolutely nothing to the success of the pull?
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WE FUGGING DID IT BOYS… i MEAN THE DAMAGE WASN’T TOUCHED AS MUCH AS I’D LIKE, BUT 30% TO SOTR IS A PRETTY DECENT BUFF… MOREOVER, 20% TO OUR WOG!!! BRO WE’RE GUNNA BE HUGE FOR LIKE 2 DAYS BEFORE WE GET NERFED LMAO!
We’re not allowed to do damage ever again because our damage was too strong in shadowlands. That’s been the devs logic for the last 3 years +
bro bring back ashen hallow holy shizz that felt so god tier to pop