Please fix Public Crafting Orders

Gameplay Professions
1

Please allow public recrafting! You wouldn’t need to set item quality, all they need to do is implement coding that keeps your item quality from droping. I would rather reforge an item 5 times to get it right than have to level 3 alts just to equip my main with proper gear. Most of us who don’t have 10 alts or a large guild would agree. If this doesn’t affect you than don’t gaslight us with easily refutable rhetoric. Why would they implement a system where your gear maintains skill points every time you recraft, based on ingredient quality, if they don’t even allow public recraft? This system that they spent valuable time on, serves absolutely nobody, no one, 0 people. Why!? Because those recrafting (most of us can’t) can already set item quality. So it’s useless. And don’t say that public work orders are for people who don’t care about item quality, there isn’t a single player in wow who doesn’t care about item level. We all do, some of us are just lock out. Again, if your not one of us, than mind your own business because this doesn’t affect you. Making the small, simple, minor change I mentioned earlier would…

  1. fix the problem with the lack of existing public work orders

  2. Allow people who aren’t in large guilds or have a ton of alts to actually use crafted gear

  3. Make use of innate skill scaling system of the item, which is currently, absolutely useless.

  4. Keep subscribers

The solution is very simple and obvious. And telling us it can’t be done (a lie) just because the team is trying push Ian’s "idea of socializing " onto the market system isn’t productive and only generates spite. It’s not socializing to spam trade without a response. Unless you’re lucky enough to get a response (I have not yet, in a year and a half) then you’ll be just be haggling, again not socializing. That’s no way yo keep your legacy players nor recruit new younger players. Ian Hazzikostas dream of spamchat shows he has little understanding of the majority of the player base and of basic human social dynamics. Blizzard, this isn’t complicated and the solution is very simple.

Please fix the game, nobody cares about mediocre Fortnight, I mean, Plunder Storm. Make the actual WoW game better and that’s how you’ll get newer players and keep the old.

I never leave forum posts, I’ve been playing since vanila launched (a little before since I participatedin the open beta). I’ve played this games for over 20 years and never complained, but my patience is exhausted! Don’t needlessly antagonize your legacy players, hear us and improve the game. Who knows you might attract newer players by improving the quality of the game? (Not an incomprehensible concept) One thing for sure, blizzard isn’t going to improve it’s revenue by angering they’re original player base. So many of my friends have quit years ago because the Devs simply won’t listen. I would love to bring them back, but you have to give me something to work with. I’m not going to lie to them and tell them you fixed that which hasn’t been fixed. At this rate I might join them and call it quits. This, I do not want to do, which is why I leaving this complaint as a last ditch effort air out my frustrations. If they refuse to fix this, come next expansion, I just might leave after over 2 decades. It’s a shame, because I was really looking foward to the new hero talents and major improvements to the evoker class. As it stands I haven’t purchased the War Within expansion, and I won’t unless they can show respect for the player base’s time. Please fix this, I want to stay, and I want to bring my friends back to the game. They didn’t leave long forum post explaining why they left, they simply left. I’ll do the same… reluctantly but I will. It’s quite telling of blizzards philosophy that they’ve lost and are still loosing players who WANT TO STAY, who want to play WoW but are fed up. Please fix this!

2

This is fundamentally no different than requiring a minimum quality on public orders, which they’ve said they don’t want to do because public orders are there for lesser skilled crafters to get an opportunity to craft for people who don’t/shouldn’t really care about the item quality.

Let’s walk through an example of this. You post a rank 4 item up for recraft, hoping to get it at rank 5. Jimmy the casual crafter comes along, and he’s only able to do rank 3, he can never hit rank 5. What happens in this scenario? If Jimmy is unable to take the order, then you might as well have just put a rank 4 minimum on the order, which Blizzard has said doesn’t line up with their philosophy for crafting orders. Does Jimmy craft a rank 3 item and you magically get back rank 4? If that’s the case, then you could (in theory) get orders done only by people like Jimmy and you would waste time and gold while never getting the item quality you want.

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. The item quality of PvP items has literally 0 impact in any pvp situation whatsoever. Always. As long as it has the trophy of conquest on it, it will go to 489 whether it’s rank 1 or rank 5. Pvpers can (and should) use the public order system to get their crafts done for the price they want.

Just find a crafter in trade chat.

If you’re making the decision to play on a lower pop server for the benefits you gain from that, then you also have to deal with the drawbacks. Before the cross realm AH, you’d have higher prices on many items and limited quantity. My former mythic raiding guild was on a low pop server and the AH literally could not consistently supply us with mats for consumables. Some weeks our bank guy would buy out all the herbs for potions and it still wasn’t enough.

That being said, your other solution of joining a guild is also a way of socializing. With cross realm guilds coming in The War Within, that will be an easier prospect than ever. I’m hoping the cross realm guilds feature will mean cross realm crafting as well, since it would be weird to not be able to craft for a guildmate. Though who knows if they’ll extend it to personal orders.

Crafting can also be a cooperative endeavor. I’ve got ~60 bnet customers that I work hard to keep happy because they’re high(er) volume and easy to work with. They get generally cheaper crafting services and don’t have to go looking for a crafter, and I get a reliable income stream where I know they’re not going to make a fuss about setting the order to r4 min quality to save me some mettle or ghost me after going to buy mats on the AH.

1 Like
3

You’re not listening, you’re just repeating the same rhetoric we’ve heard a hundred times. Also what does my herb gathering scythe have to do with pvp? Your cherry picked assumptions and suggestion that I should “change server” to fix the problem (as if it would) is absolutely absurd. Leave the server you say, what an unoriginal, non solution. Wow! You must be some kind of genius! I already told you not to parrot repetitive nonsense, maybe you should read my post again. And I mean actually read it this time. We understand how the system works Einstein, you however, don’t seem to understand what has been explicitly explained in my post. I’ll let you in on a little secret, if you take your time to read and absorb, said writings, you might actually understand what is being communicated. Absorb what I’m telling you, instead regurgitating your dishonest rhetoric and miss directions. And you ARE being disingenuous.

4

You stated that “And don’t say that public work orders are for people who don’t care about item quality, there isn’t a single player in wow who doesn’t care about item level.” I pointed out that this is demonstrably false, as pvpers don’t (or at least shouldn’t) care about item quality for pvp items.

I guarantee you that you would not have an issue finding a crafter within 5 minutes on area 52 or illidan.

Then you would understand why public recraft orders are a bad idea, especially when blizzard is pretty adamant about not letting people set a minimum quality on public orders.

5

I said not to regurgitate the same misdirections and nonesense and you did just that. Also I’m a pvper, I know what I care about so you don’t speak for me, we pvpers can speak for ourselves… and I say again WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH MY HERBS GATHERING SCYTHE? How silly of me, caps aren’t gonna make you read and understand any better. Also don’t tell us to leave our servers, that’s not a solution, and even if it were (it’s not a resonable one). Also nobody said anything about setting minimum item lvl. You’re saying that’s what I am saying and you’ve said it multiple times. They have a terms for what you’re doing, it’s called “Setting up a Straw Man” But you probably already know that, since you seem so adept at raising scarecrows. Read again, third times a charm, maybe you’ll get it this time. You can do it!

6

The scythe is a non-sequitor. It wasn’t present in your original post. I was simply pointing out that there are people out there for which ilevel doesn’t matter.

It is a solution though.

Then how do you propose making it so that people who cannot make a max rank item won’t be able to craft your public recrafting order and make it at level 1 or 2?

7

  1. Read again I’ve already explained how to fix work orders in the original post. Read it again. Fourth time’s a charm.

  2. I mentioned my scythe on my first reply to you. (Maybe you didn’t read it, you seem to have selected eyesight) Apparently you weren’t aware that it’s a crated item. Of course you did, you’re a fount of knowledge.

  3. What did I say about changing servers, were selectively reading again?

8

Yeah, your “just don’t let items drop in quality xd” suggestion is a non starter, as that removes most of the value mettle has.

Yeah, it was not relevant to the discussion at hand. You said everyone cares about ilevel. I said there are a number of pvpers that don’t care, because it doesn’t matter. You asked what it had to do with your scythe. The scythe came out of nowhere.

You can say you don’t want to switch servers, that’s fine, but it objectively is a solution to the problem, at least until/unless they add cross realm orders.

9

Love how you changed the goal post of the 2nd paragraph “from you never mentioned it” to “it’s irrelevant”. That’s what dishonest people do. It’s relevant, it’s a crafted item and the quality matters. You know this you’re just not being honest. Also I don’t need a play by play of irrelevant pvp argument. I’m a pvper and I read it the firts time and actually understood it the first time around (Imagine that! Reading to understand!)

It’s funny how you claim that low lvl crafters wouldn’t be able to fufill orders, if they implemened my changes (but then again that was only the third time you read my original comment and you hadn’t yet registered the very firt sentence “You wouldn’t even have to set and item quality” but I get that lecture isn’t your strong suit. Now, that you finally understand that first part (after only the 4th attempt at lecture, congrats) and that it would very much benefit the low lvl crafters (most of all) and the greater common community, you say it would remove the value of mettle (more changing of the goal post, cute attempt though) for those who can grantie rank 5. Sounds like were getting to the root of your true intention, which is not to devalue the value of high lvl crafters. Which was always your fear, i already knew, which is why you’re rhetoric was so dishonest and selective. But your only partialy right about artisans mettle, it would lower its value a bit, but would still remain valuable since the guaranteed high lvl would off set the cost of the mats for those who are repetitively recrafting their gear. So you, and I mean YOU, would still be able to charge a premium in personal orders, you just wouldn’t be able to gouge them for it. My suggestions, again laid out in the original post, would also cause more people to actually bother to get items crafted (many don’t bother because the system sucks) increasing demand (i assume you understand economics, at least the basic of offer/demand) and then it would further offset the devaluation of artisans mettle by, AGAIN, encreasing the demand for said mettle. Also stop trying to get me to join your server, I know you want more gold but no I’m not interested.

10

If you’re going to live in a glass house, maybe it would be for the best for you to not throw stones. Reading comprehension might be a bit of a struggle on your end it would appear. I said you never mentioned it in the original post, which is true. If you would read back through the conversation. You said “And don’t say that public work orders are for people who don’t care about item quality, there isn’t a single player in wow who doesn’t care about item level.” Nowhere was the scythe mentioned in the original post. You were making a claim that every single player cares about item level, which just isn’t true. I gave an example. You responded (i.e. not in the original post) asking about your herbalism scythe, which had nothing to do with it.

11

To be fair he does identify the solution in his original post and it would not require Blizzard to expand the min quality window to recrafting or public orders. The logic should be pretty simple to code with something along the lines of:
Identify current Tier.
Set current Tier to Min Craft Result.
Recraft.
Check resultant Tier.
If less than Min Craft Result raise item Tier to Min Craft Result.

Now with that said, I like that idea slightly less than a tooth extraction without anesthetic. It invalidates so many aspects of the new crafting system because it would allow you to get one Inspired result to Tier 4 or 5 and viola, you never have to provide high level reagents, provide a good tip, or care about who recrafts for you again because the result stays at the highest Tier.

To the OP.
While I am in favor of public recrafting, it should have the same limits, restrictions, and chances that current public crafting does. If a recraft does not provide the proper materials, or the crafter is new and doesn’t have the necessary points in their skill trees, the result should be whatever they can do. If that means your item goes from T4 to T1, sorry, try again later.

Item level matters only as much as the requestor wants it to. I regularly use public orders for my alts because I really don’t care what the result is. They don’t raid, they don’t dungeon, etc. They only kill things in the open world so the higher ilevel from the upgraded Spark is plenty. But for my main no expense is spared because then I care about the result.

The system works fairly well with what Blizzard wants it to do. Not saying people agree on everything, they don’t as this discussion indicates, but to say it works for no one is overboard and wrong. There is a learning curve for both crafters and requesters, but it is fairly small and works well once you are willing to engage in the system as it is designed, not how you want it to be.

To your four suppositions about allowing public recrafting work orders.

  1. Not really. Plenty of people prefer to use someone they know, or pretend to know, in game because there is a way for them to discuss the result and seek redress if it doesn’t work out. This is normal human behavior that Blizzard cannot get around, nor would your idea. It would add public work orders to the system, but would not solve the underlying issue of not enough.

  2. Plenty of people not in large guilds, and without crafting alts, use crafted gear. I regularly craft for non-guilded and small guild people. Now, server matters here and if you are on a small server that will limit your access to crafters simply due to total population. Not really Blizzard’s problem. And Hambrick is right that you have the option to server transfer even if you do not like that idea as a way to alleviate your issues finding crafters.

  3. You need to expand on this. I do not see the interdependence of skill scaling to the crafting system in your idea.

  4. Your proposed idea is not a large issue to most players. To some, yes, it may be the straw that breaks the proverbial camels back. But it is not as big as you make it out to be compared to their total disagreement with the new profession design. Your change might allow Blizzard to keep your subscription, but beyond that you are projecting.

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12

Yeah, I saw the “solution” he proposed, and it doesn’t really fix the problem he wants to solve. If he gets a t4 item, and he wants to make it t5, yeah he could put up a recraft order and he would never get it back less than t4, but if a crafter took it who could never in their life make a t5, then it would just actually be a waste of gold, and he’d probably be right back here crying about how he put up 20 recrafting orders and got scammed because not a single one of them proc’d t5. Also the issue you point out about once you get a t5, then being able to get just any crafter for a recraft. It would also heavily incentivize just making an item at 486 non embellished and without a missive, since those all can be guaranteed t5 100% without an insight, and then just recrafting with the missive and embellish on after so you wouldn’t have to pay for the insight.

13

The skill scaling system for recrafting, meaning the item maintains an innate skill lvl every time you recraft it (based on ingredient lvl, already exists. This means if your recraft the item 10 times it will eventually hit lvl 5 quality. That’s how compound sommation works, it’s simple math. But as it stands it serves because you can’t publicly recraft. With personal or guild orders however, you can set the it to max item level, so scalling consecutive recraft is entire unnecessary. Alow public recrafting would, actually make use of the, recrafting scaling system that is currently of no use to either public or personal crafters.

14

That’s not how recrafting works.

15

I never mentioned pvp items in the original post, I mentioned crafted items, and you understood pvp item level. I clarified on my reply that this has nothing to do “with the price of rice in China” specifying but not limited to my scythe. I assume you also understand the idiom used. Still after my reply, you still hadn’t acknowledged it which is fine. Also recrafting and item 20 times, as you mentioned earlier, would actually guarantee a perfect item. Maybe you didn’t, know that’s how the skill point retention system works. If you don’t know what it is, look it up then come back to me.

16

You can craft pvp items. A flame-touched chestpiece with a pvp trophy on it is a crafted item.

That’s not how it works. You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the blue post where items remember what mats they were made with, and recrafting can replace ~40% of the mats at a time. If an item takes 200 skill to hit rank 5, and I have 100 skill points and inspire gives me 70, that item will never come out rank 5 ever.

17

Oh you didn’t know? See, it’sso useless, you didn’t even know it existed. Look it up first, then you’ll understand how recrafting works.

18

Except that’s not how it works. You can’t just keep recrafting it 2000 times and get some secret stacking bonus skill. If you’re below the inspiration threshold, it will just never proc t5.

19

Again you don’t know that there is innate system that scales up the saved points EVERY time you recraft an item (based on the ingredient quality) It means the item remembers everytime the items is recrafted and adds extra skills points everything time. The higher lvl quality of ingredients, the more points it retains per recraft.

The fact that you didn’t already know thatt it existed is acceptable, like I said the item scaling is so useless, you didn’t even know it about it, why would you?

What isn’t acceptable is you not understanding after how many times it’s been explained too you (again, that’s probably a reading issue). You read only to respond, not to understand. You are not unique in that fashion.

Also, again… we know how pvp items are crafted. Again, with the “price of rice in China”. Do you know what a broken record sounds like, you’ve heard of those haven’t you.

Again I encourage you to google it or ask a friend who knows, than you can be better informed :wink:

It’s great to learn, cause knowledge is power!

20

These are two separate issues from allowing public recrafting orders. Related, for sure, but independent of each other.

Yes, the system records the materials used to craft the initial item.

But, each recraft then replaces about 40ish percent of the recorded materials using a last in, last out prioritization sequence. Using this one could actually decrease the resultant item level if you used R1 materials to replace R2 or R3 materials.

Recrafting 10 times to hit R5 only works if you, a) replace the recorded materials with higher level ones, b) use an Insight, or c) Inspire proc, and in all three cases you must reach the required skill threshold. You may need only one recraft before Inspiration strikes. You might need 40 or more recrafts to achieve the same.

Compound summation, also known as bad luck protection, does not affect crafting. Each attempt is a unique event using the math available for that particular craft or recraft. My 250 base skill and 17% inspiration to craft Primal Molten Helm is always the same. My tools provide another 22 skill and 20% Inspiration. The variables are the materials used for the craft or recraft. If I try to craft, or recraft, that helm with nothing but R1 mats, missive, embellishment, and an Enchanted Aspect’s crest, I will never reach T5. The crafts’ 280 base skill +110 difficulty is 390 required skill while my 250 base skill with up to +115 Inspired only provides 365 at best. Those values never change without adding an Insight or changing the materials, missive, or embellishment to R2 or R3.

This issue has mostly, it still happens occasionally, worked itself out over DF as crafters filled in their skill wheels and requestors started using primarily R2 and R3 materials. But it was huge when 10.1 hit with lots of recrafts happening with people not understanding how come they were receiving downgraded tiered items even though they were upgrading the item level due to changing the Spark. Almost all could be traced back to the materials used for the original craft. This was also true for why some personal and guild orders could not initially be recrafted to R5 because of the math resulting from those original materials.

All of that to say what you are calling the skill scaling system probably does need some updates so it does not hide so much information.

Adding BLP, or compound summation as you called it, has been discussed multiple times on these forums with some for and some against. I think it would be bad because of once again invalidating much of how Blizzard designed the new crafting system to force crafters to invest in their profession in order to provide the highest Tier outcomes.