ramp and bloat are on the higher side of the spectrum again, time to cycle back to three buttons and go through all of this a third time
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Well, letās be honest here, not everybody wants to play like an arcane mage.
Iām pretty sure not even arcane mages want to play like arcane mages right now. Itās just the only competitive spec.
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Iām not trying to be rude. What Iām saying is, you donāt always need to be 100% invested in the top build.
Use Tiny Toxic Blade. The DPS difference wonāt be that huge, and youāll be able to move around Combo Points for Echoing Reprimand better.
Complaining over something when itās 100% a choice is like complaining about a pizza you made because of one tiny little optional ingredient that you yourself put in it.
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Pruning was extremely unpopular among the entire community.
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This is what i disagree with for two reasons, first i have always enjoyed playing the top builds, trying to make number go up has always been a major thing that drives me in WoW. While this has meant doing some silly and clunky things in the past it has never been as impactfull as double my rotation. Thats a much bigger change than any i have done before and i think its fair to complain when a game changes its expectation drasticly for its players after 15 years.
Secoundly i think making these choices are way to punishing, i have played around with sims alot to try and find some less bloaty builds and most of the times it would end up at around a 15% dmg loss but in some cases it would go as high as 35%. This is a very high price to pay for wanting to play the game in a similary manner that you have done in the last 15 years.
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Wait so you want a world where you can take a bunch of passives and not push buttons but do the same amount of damage as people that take and push buttonsā¦LMAO you keep swinging for the stars slugger!
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Please add some button bloat into frost mage. All active talents in frost talents are massive dps loss. Glacial spike in pve is garbage and eats like 40% of your total dps. Ray of frost is just useless, COMET SHOWER - PURE AOE ABILITY IS A DPS LOSS EVEN ON PURE AOE PLEASE BLIZZARD WHY
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Nice strawman argument there.
No, it does not mean you want passive skills and do nothing, it means not having to make choices between equally bad things. Having 5 spells on your toolbar of varying cooldowns isnāt engaging gameplay. It becomes whack-a-mole where the next item is used because the other isnāt available and your fight will be over in 10 seconds.
You donāt need 5 spells that do that, you need a few less.
Hence the name of the thread āplease end the button bloatā, nowhere did he say that he wanted a bunch of choices with passive abilities.
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This.
This is the entire point.
You have more activatable abilities, you do more DPS.
You donāt just get to do the same DPS for casting less abilities, thatās not how that works.
Rogues are a complex class. Thatās why not a lot of people play them. They have a high skill ceiling with the flexibility to add more buttons to their rotation, giving you more DPS.
You canāt just say āIāve enjoyed every single top build for 14 years but now I dislike it so please remove buttons so I can do the same DPS for less effort.ā, and expect it to go over smoothly.
You enjoy a build? Good, play it.
You donāt enjoy it? Talent out of it and into something else.
Complaining on the forums that you donāt enjoy the 100th percentile build isnāt a good reason for Blizzard to make it easier just for you.
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At this point Iāve just accepted that I have 58 keybinds and have just memorized them all for all my characters. cāest la vie
wouldnt be bad at all if the button bloat was optional but as it is the non-passive talents are so much superior than the passive ones theres not much choice unless you really dont care about being the gimp heh
basically its a matter of talents balancing imo. and balance isnt their forte they just check the meta build and balance that lol
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I agree. At a certain point itās just complexity for complexityās sake. The hardcore players wonāt care or even notice much, but it makes the game much harder to get into for new players. Thatās ultimately bad for everyone.
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Always been rinse, and repeat in this game 
I mean itās literally his second sentence.
You change those "you"s to āiā and fair enough. Your opinion isnāt objective fact. I like buttons.
I am enjoying it myself but I can understand why some people would suddenly dislike it.
button bloat = skill issue
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This is a very wierd takeaway from what i said. The point is that Blizzard has changed their class design alot in SL and DF. With the depruning and covenant abilities in SL and DF talent tree trying to bring back the greatest hits that have created talent trees where you have to play minesweaper to reduce the ability count on your bars.
You saw less ability added to your rotation between WotLK to WoD than you have seen in SL and DF. Doubling abilities in roations is a major change to the gameplay, just dismissing people disliking this kinda of rapid change and saying just dont take those talents is bizzar.
Forcing players to choose between their new design or taking heavy output losses isnt just an self imposed issue. It makes me question if i wanna continue pushing high m+ keys or raiding mythic. Content iāve ejoyed throughout most of my time in WoW is now being less enjoyable cus the game forces me to choose between playing their new class design or taking dmg losses tht will impact my preformance to a point where im a hinderance to the group.
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Tbh thatās why I went frost. Cd period is longer, but I donāt have all the setup lol
Acting like adding abilities over the course of several years and calling that rapid change is whatās truly bizarre.
Why, if youāve been paying for as long as you claim, would you act like this is any different than at any other point in the gameās history. You can always take less than optimal passive paths and your dps has always suffered as a result. Nothing new and exactly as it should be.
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