I think it’s safe to say that most of us agree that Classic showed us how toxic the world buffing game can be, and that some changes should be made in future (fresh) versions. However, PLEASE don’t overreact and permanently remove world buffs from raids. There are many players out there like myself who are super-competitive, who like having world buffs, and who WON’T play fresh Classic if one of our major sources of fun is no longer available.
Instead of alienating a segment of the playerbase, please find a way to compromise, and do something like…
A) Add Chronoboons at launch
B) Auto-remove world buffs from 40 and 20 man raids for only the first two months of each raid
C) Find ways to make world buffs easier to obtain, and tougher to lose (no cooldowns on dropping buffs, buffs persist through death, etc)
OR
D) Separate realm types for world buffs enabled / disabled
I was GM and raid leader for one of the top NA Classic guilds, and I know both sides of the issue as well as anyone. I know how stressful the buffing routine can be. I personally had to buff a few other people’s characters each week, in addition to my own, just so they wouldn’t quit the game. While I personally don’t want world buffs in at the release of each raid, I don’t want to be unable to use them in those raids, ever. So please, give us some sort of compromise!
Absence of world buffs for raids actually makes raiding and parsing MORE competitive. It evens the playing field.
World buffs in raids artificially boosts performance, compensating for skill, allowing you to dominate people who don’t have the time or interest in getting world buffs.
I almost never got world buffs unless one or two happened to be going out before raid time. World Buffless against my guild mates who went full world buff every raid, I was still always top 10.
After a wipe when the playing field was even, I was usually top 3 if not 1 or 2.
Saying raiding won’t be “competitive” without world buffs is an oxymoron.
I never said that. I said “There are many players out there like myself who are super-competitive, who like having world buffs.”
World buffs are a game, inside a game, that keep me interested in playing. Not only is it a lot of fun to play your character essentially with cheat codes enabled, but it’s a way to keep farm raids fun and fresh, rather than long, dull, and feeling like a weekly chore. I also personally enjoy challenging myself to see how quickly I can summon myself around the world to rebuff everything, all while dodging toxic horde players who are deliberately trying to grief.
There are a lot of people who dislike world buffs, and there’s a lot of people who like them. All I’m saying is that there should be some sort of compromise for fresh Classic.
Sorry I just inferred from your statement that you wanted world buffs because you and your friends were super competitive and wouldn’t play without them.
I have no problem with people who like big numbers and the work that goes into getting world buffs. In my view competitiveness isn’t a justification.
I can also see lack of world buffs drastically changing the raiding meta. Warriors scale amazing with world buffs, and lust, so removing them from raids could have a big impact on class/spec representation—which could be good or bad.
Imagine how much the end game meta could change with world buffs gone and no cap on boss debuffs.
This is totally subjective. I think the exact opposite of everything you said here is true for me. Cheat codes enabled is a way to cheese an already easy game and does not equal more fun. It certainly doesn’t keep the content more fresh when you are just steamrolling through the game. Please disable world buffs in raids.
I think this is a very good key to bring up. By removing world buffs entirely or lessening their validity inside instances DOES change the metric for how long and often players have to be outside of their respective ‘safe zone’ factions. It is fundamentally why meeting stones should NOT become summoning portals. Part of what makes Classic great is traveling through lvl 30 zones to get to SFK or lvl 50 zones to get to SM as Alliance or braving STV panthers to get into Deadmines (just because) [not to mention the whole point of bringing a warlock, or the utility of a mage classes have roles that only they can fill]
A big part of PvP servers is the World PvP and the opportunity to be attacked while going about your business.
I remember our guild had to group with a 2nd guild and run in a massive 80 player army into Blackrock mountain to get into MC with our world buffs in tact! Some EPIC memories are formed if you just leave things alone. Messing with the game has a butterfly effect. Minimal tweaks please.
This I think is the best suggestion I’ve heard. Allows players to go hard mode but also lets people speed clear to help lagging behind guildies once 1st wave already has their gear.
Quite the contrary, I think world buffs are part of a ceremonial that helps people create bonds.
I don’t think that’s a good idea on the long term, more realms dividing the player base
Totally. While I like world buffs for the community or pvp aspects, I actually don’t like too much it replaces skills in raid. They should keep the world buffs and make the bosses 20% harder !
I agree, but I’d like world buffs for the reasons above
I think the easiest solution is just disable those buffs in raids. That Chrono thing just seems like an extra, unnecessary step. Also, some players want the content to be more challenging. Instead of having to retune encounters, simply having the lack of world buffs makes them more difficult.
World buffs also tilt faction balance since Horde get one that Alliance can’t get (unless you do the mind control trick in Org).
But Horde just don’t have a separate world buff Alliance don’t get, the impact of the world buffs scale extremely well with lust, leading to more Horde players.
Plus, if Blizz removed world buffs in raids and unlocked the debuff limit on bosses, the end game meta would change significantly. Change like that is something Classic+ needs.
That said, I think Blizz should also make some pure Classic servers for people that like that, but I doubt Blizz wants to be running 3 or 4 different versions of the game.
Like I already said, world buffs are a game inside a game. They create additional content that provides challenge, change, and forces players and guilds to work together to achieve common goals.
Permanent removal of world buffs from raids would be bad for the community, and the game in general.
I don’t recall any additional content or challenge in getting the Dragonslayer, DMF or ZG buffs. Just be online when your guild or Discord says it’s gonna drop, then log out.
World buffs are lame for raids, used by players not as a challenge but just a way to stroke their epeen over people who didn’t get them. Don’t try to characterize them as something different from what they are.
You already admitted that you “almost never got world buffs,” so your experience playing Classic differed significantly from mine. You missed out big time.
