Please do NOT change Survival to ranged (+ tuning suggestion)

It’s a bit hit or miss, depends on the context. On the one hand, calling someone out for the toon they post on could be construed as an ad hominem, distracting from the arguments presented by putting the other person on the defensive.

On the other hand, there are few reasons to post on a low level alt except to conceal who your main is, and by proxy conceal your actual experience. Since that experience is often relevant to the argument at hand, the act of concealing it can be validly inferred as shame over one’s lack of experience (why would you hide having that experience, after all?), and thus the act of posting on a low-level alt can be construed as a tacit admission that the person in question does not in fact have the credentials or experience they imply or state they have.

The only major reason people post on low level alts is to dissociate their posting behavior from their main, to avoid any reputation they gain from posting coming back and impacting their gameplay on their main. Since that’s really only a relevant desire when one’s posting behavior is highly negative (ie. “trolling”, though it’s broader than the actual definition of trolling, and includes unnecessarily antagonistic or incendiary posting styles), it’s not necessarily an untoward assumption that one posting on a low-level alt intends to be inflammatory or otherwise post ridiculous positions just for the enjoyment of inciting a flame-war.

On the balance, I tend to lean slightly towards the latter camp. The person posting made a conscious decision to use that low level character. While the fact that the post is coming from a low-level character does not necessarily belay the validity of the point being made, it does raise very valid and rather commonly applicable questions as to why they person chose to use a low-level alt for posting, and thus what their actual intentions on the forums happen to be.


I can be quite harsh towards newer players that aren’t asking for advice but ask for a plethora of reworks or changes without actually playing the spec or class.

Same can be said for times we’ve had the SV bow-equip discussions. Sometimes the want to quickly respond shows some bad judgement in how I respond. There are some players that hate me for this and I understand it and that’s okay, I don’t expect anyone to like me lol.

But again there was 2 troll posts in here from fellows such as our friend 21 Yinz here in which I called them out.

To be fair I also looked up his post history and some of his responses to me are copy/paste similar to other arguments he’s had in other forums.

At this point it’s just a “last word” contest, I don’t have to prove anything to a level 21.


Eh, I don’t really fault you for that. I’ve been guilty of the same before where in my haste to try and reply, I leave things unclear or my tone sounds more harsh than I may have intended. Which can of course rub people the wrong way from time to time.

I tend to look for consistency more so with frequent posters over one off bad experiences, which helps shape my view of the poster.

1 Like

Feel free to show me how you’re better then I am and bow out. You won’t, because you aren’t. Level 21 and proud of it.

Feel free to reshare the posts where I was being an obnoxious troll. Or… be the better man and don’t.

Trolling is an art.

I’m obviously very bad at it because of all my posts only one guy has ever called me one.

An art that some just aren’t good at :frowning: big sadge

When did they start getting triggered? That’s against the troll code

Post on your main and I’ll be glad to tell you m8.

Truth be told, the last time I posted on my main I got relentlessly hounded in game because of a post I made in the pet battle forum. I had to get a GM to remove the 1000’s of COD’s from my inbox. Never again will I post on a toon I actually play on.

Whatever though. Go ahead and get the last post and go post some snarky comment to someone else you’re better than.

1 Like


SV is an abomination. They messed up MM and deleted SV to give you this abomination. They need to revert the changes back to when Hunters were actually enjoyable to play and each spec felt like a spec instead of melee–BM.


old surv was one of the most fun specs in the game and it was nuked for this abomination. they could of called it something else and made it good and left ranged surv. the writing might be on the wall for melee survival tho with how its being ignored almost entirely since its inception. there have been some hefty redesigns and design shifts on several specs with far less issues than survival. kinda seems like they are doing the blizzard treatment and leaving it in the gutter until their redesign is finished


This is what I do not understand about you people.

Somehow you assume that if they didn’t move sv to melee, it would not have been messed up beyond recognision anyway

I feel like both melee and old survival could exist in one spec. They already added ranged weapon only abilities back like arcane and steady. Just need to rework some talents.

Delete flanking strike and add black arrow, making it ranged weapon only. That way you have to choose between raptor strike talents or a ranged playstyle. As the op suggested you can make some of the other talents like wildfire infusion baseline and the double bomb talent imo. Add explosive shot and lock and load in their place. Explosive would replace bomb. Lock and load is already in the last tier as mm so why not ours? It could proc an empowered bomb or explosive shot if your talented into it. Maybe even change steady to cobra and let it build focus.

Then for flavor, can we add snake trap back maybe as a pvp talent. And maybe even wyvern

Added: Then delete explosive shot from mm and give them something they want. Don’t want the specs feeling too similar.

All that together would be a bit overkill for single-target throughput.

Moreover, this wouldn’t make Mongoose Bite feel any more applicable than it is at present (that is to say, far less than it should be).

You’d also need to fill the two slots of talents you’ve made baseline and balance out having made Alpha Predator even more obligatory.

But otherwise, this would be a good start.

MM needs a minor rework and sv should prob be redesigned entirely. they could take back the surv things that were rolled up into marks and use that as a push to shift mm around and kill 2 birds with 1 stone

1 Like

And for those who do enjoy things like Serpent Sting and Explosive Shot on MM and do not want to give up MSV?

i mean thats tough for them. what about the people that liked old marks and old surv ?


4th spec. And old MM had both Chimaera and varied Stings. Its identity wasn’t driven solely by being not-magical.


find where i said not magical

Right here, effectively, as the only things that were ever “rolled up into marks” were Explosive Shot and Black Arrow, both magical. If such has forced a need for a minor rework by which to shift MM away from that rolling up of magical attacks, one would normally assume you want MM to have… fewer magical attacks, as if such were somehow contrary to its theme.

Scorpid and Viper are both gone from PvE now so any attempt to re-add Chimaera in the place of either, not thus draining MM of most of its magical elements, would be solely wilted lip-service in comparison to any “old MM” version thereof, so unless you were to develop entirely new forms of magic damage for the spec, which likewise not be “old MM”, yeah… it would seem like your idea of MM is framed heavily predominantly just on it not being whatever you categorically see as SV.