Every class in the game can slow their opponents in PvP, paladins are the only class that can’t in SoD. I know in WOTLK paladins had a specific judgement that would reduce run speed, we need that in SoD. Paladins need a slow, again ONLY class with no slows.
1 Like
Just go avengers shield bro!
Once they realise that using 3 rune slots to make 1 ability work is bad, may be then you will have some variety in leg slot.
#exorcistAsQoLbook
7 Likes
And you lose exorcism and art of war so you’re gimping your damage by a lot. Plus you have to create a macro to switch shield for 2 hander which causes a GCD. Again every other class just presses one button and don’t have to sacrifice dps.
2 Likes
This is the real issue, imo. Currently, to not be a one-legged dog as a paladin in terms of damage - yeah, we’re taking three legs off this dog, not one - you’re required to:
- Run Exorcist on your pants so Exorcism can be used against more than Undead and Demons
- Run Art of War on your feet to 1) get Exorcism’s CD reset on crit, and 2) make Exorcism not cost 1/8th of your mana if you’re not a healer, 1/16th if you are
- Run Seal of Martyrdom with a fast weapon(in PvE, especially ST)/Divine Storm with a slow (two-handed) weapon(in PvP or situations where you’ll be cleaving every 10 sec) to proc Art of War more frequently
- Run Sheath of Light on your waist to convert 30% of your AP to spell damage so your Exorcism actually does more damage than sneezing on your target
Instead of making runes that affect a variety of core abilities, or just give new abilities outright(e.g. Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, etc.), Blizzard is creating synergy between… runes, that they’re adding in SoD, that effectively eliminates choice among rune slots, because of how much power is locked into one ability that needs a handful of runes to be usable. And I know this thread is about PvP, but if we nip this Exo-bug in the bud now, it’ll save a lot of whining you’ll hear from paladins come P4 when they have 17% chance to miss with Exorcism and they’re salty that they can’t run Sheath of Light and Enlightened Judgments at the same time.
As someone who was doing this in WSG to exalted in P1: This is a minor annoyance at best, especially if you run into AS range with your shield equipped, toss it, and swap to your 2h before you even engage in battle. Obviously this isn’t possible 100% of the time, but it’s pretty helpful. Also to mention that the swap only resets the GCD, rather than adding one; if you’re 0.1s into the GCD and swap, you now have a 1.6s GCD; you don’t have to sit through the rest of the 1.4s and sit through another 1.5s.
(You probably knew this, but including it for people who might not.)
Not every other class has Divine Shield.
Not every other class can bring an array of buffs with zero talent points spent.
Not every other class can give up to 16 seconds of snare immunity on a 20 sec CD.
Not every other class can toss on a 1.30 speed weapon, toss up a buff, and swing for the fences to quickly stun an enemy with no CD.
Not every class gets a 6-sec incapacitate as their capstone talent for a tree that doesn’t share DR with a 6-sec stun they get for free.
I could go on, but I’ll eventually turn pedantic.
Also, obligatory “PvP isn’t balanced around 1v1” mention.
1 Like
Having three Runes to make one damaging ability work decently sacrifices too much. I’m not asking for 1v1 balance, just a base slow that we got from WOTLK, Judgment of Justice. As for Divine Shield, it’s a 5-minute cooldown so basically Paladins once every 5 minutes can last 12 seconds longer and all the smart players just run away from the paladin, wait till bubble wears off, than kite and kill the Paladin, again we have no interrupts or slows unless you want to sacrifice exorcism again. Also, it may be a little inconvenient but again what other class has to make a macro to switch to a shield to use a slow that’s 20 second cooldown. All other classes can slow with no cooldowns aside from shamans 6 seconds. Like the other paladin said, make exorcism buff a tome instead of a rune and that would give more flexibility. Heck I would take even that and use avenger’s shield rune and do the weapon swap macro, just please give us a reliable slow just like every other class has. As for seal of justice, that’s random proc chance and is capped. Hammer of justice is a 1 min cooldown; other classes stuns are not on such a long cooldown. Blessing of Freedom can be purged or dispelled and even with it, the other player simply has to run away because paladins have no base slow. And you also need 11 points into protection for blessing of kings.
1 Like
This is what my first, and longest, section of my post above said, in far less words.
I’d honestly much rather just be able to use Avenger’s Shield as a slow like in P1 and not be funneled into dumping four of my five runes into playing shockadin-lite with Exorcism. (Honestly, might as well just rename Exorcism to Holy Shock and let whatever dev has an obsession with this fantasy get it over with instead of trying to force non-healers to go 31 pts into Holy.)
I wouldn’t mind Judgment of Justice actually doing something against players, but it doesn’t need to be a snare. 
And I’m not saying you’re asking for 1v1 balance; I’m saying it sounds like you’re asking for homogenizing classes, to the point where they’re all not even “separate but equal,” but just flat-out the same. I’d rather there be less homogeny, with different classes having their own pros and cons, far more than they have pretty much any time after later phases of WotLK.
You’d be surprised how few smart players there are, it seems, with how many people just stand around and get walloped by the paladin that runs in, gets dotted up, bubbles, and cleaves casters.
And again, this is the fault of whomever on the SoD dev team thought it was a good idea to funnel everything for a paladin doing damage for any reason - PvE DPS, PvE tanking, PvP damage-dealing - to have to funnel it all into Exorcism.
Since we don’t get Cleanse until 42, someone needs to cast Purify on this class and get the Exo-stink out of the runes.
Wasn’t this the complaint warriors had about paladins in P1, with us being able to run Rebuke and interrupt ad hoc, while they had to use a macro to swap stances, toss on a sword & board, Shield Bash, and swap weapons & stances back?
Let’s not even get into the huge laundry list: What other classes have 10/13/16 seconds of snare immunity on a 20 sec CD? Hell, how many other classes get to even break snares three times per minute?
I wouldn’t have an issue with this. Like I said, the runes are garbage when you have to use four of your five slots to make one ability usable, and gimp yourself in any situation where you need to deal an iota of damage if you’re not basing your entire “toolkit” (if you can call it anywhere near that) around one ability that doesn’t even work on anything but The Devil and Mr. Bones in normal play.
This, I’m fine with. It seemed you weren’t fine with it above, hence my opposition to adding another snare. A 10 sec snare that can hit up to three targets, that can be removed, on a 30 sec CD, that takes up a rune slot is perfectly serviceable, imo, permitting there’s not some SoD dev that only plays DPS and wants to have “I will SHOCK the world because I am the SHOCKMASTER!” macro’d to Holy Shock steering every worthwhile rune for paladin into offensively stronger Holy Shock Exorcism.
judge justice.
3 Likes
Paladins have a ranged 5 second stun and a ranged slow and base ms+mount speed increase. Y’all are fine. More than fine actually. Paladins are straight up busted in PvP. y’all are really trying to gaslight everyone into thinking Paladins are bad, huh?
2 Likes
Yeah, I think we agree on most points which is good. Either your or mine solution I’d be cool with. I think Judgement of Justice would be better though. Let’s hope that Blizzard makes some real changes to Paladins.
1 Like
lowkey just give them divine steed instead man. Do what savix suggested with it being 60% now and 100% at 60.
1 Like
5 second stun with 1 minute cooldown, avenger’s shield requires a rune slot which removes two damaging runes and 20 seconds CD whereas earthshock 6 secs, crippling poison, priest snares, and every other class that can snare easily without make drastic sacrifices to damage. Paladins have to sacrifice a lot more than other classes for a simple slow. I’m not saying Paladins are bad, I’m just asking for a base slow ability like every other class in the game has.
I agree, but does the 4%/8% movement speed increase really factor into PvP that frequently? I usually take it in PvP because, honestly, there’s not a lot that really feels worthwhile at that point in the Ret tree, it feels, but it doesn’t seem like it really does much.
I imagine repentance would be pretty useful for catching up to people. A lot more than 8% run speed.
Most of the powerful PvP paladin specs enchant movement speed to boots and use those two talent points elsewhere since the enchant gives the same boost, but they don’t both stack.
“At that point.”
I have a couple of points to spare between sinking 18 points for SoC, 5% crit, and Eye for an Eye and 25 points into Ret for Vengeance before Repentance. Generally, I take one point of Vindication(when people are actually dispelling debuffs, it’s another thing they waste mana and a GCD dispelling) and 2/2 Pursuit of Justice on the way to the bottom of the tree.
It’s ok, but like the other stun it’s a 1 minute cooldown and requires 31 points in the ret talent tree. Spending 31 points in a talent for a 1 minute cooldown that stuns for 6 seconds is not worth it. Most paladins roll engineering instead for the net and grenades to stun and put the one talent point elsewhere.
Shaman were given BoF. They have a ranged snare.
One of the reasons Paladins have Freedom to compensate for no snare and no charge. But with Shaman getting Freedom, I just see no reason not to put a snare on Judgement or another ability that we dont have to switch gear for.
Please note that it’s an incapacitate effect, not a stun; it doesn’t share DR with HoJ or SoJ. This, and being usable at 20y over 10y(this is definitely a benefit) makes it a pretty darn good tool in PvP.
I legitimately had to look up shaman runes to see Decoy Totem. I won’t say shamans don’t run it at all in PvP, but I very rarely see shamans dropping this; I see Earthbind a lot, and I see them trying to run - and getting caught up in crap - in Ghost Wolf, but I don’t see a ton of them utilizing Decoy Totem very well, if at all. Maybe the majority I see in PvP are running Spirit of the Alpha, idk.
That having been said: I’m not going to even suggest a weapon swap with a GCD reset is equivalent to deciding which Earth Totem to put down. I will say that I’d still just prefer Avenger’s Shield. Though I’d honestly prefer the SoD team not be as amazingly haphazard as they’ve been, but I seem to be the minority in this case, at least on this board, so take that for what it’s worth.