Wrong. 2H Oblit IS a Frost build. Lots of people play it and there are plenty of build guides and sims showing the minor differences.
5% difference in sims does not make 2H unplayable. Not every situation in game is perfectly tailored big Breath windows. If you’re playing with a pug, chances are you will never get full value from the build depending how your tank is pulling.
Stop being dramatic. A few percent in either direction isn’t that big of a deal and at the moment, 2H vs Frost is a play-style preference with the main variable being your weapon ilvl and what content you’re doing.
just got a champ 2h pole arm and a hero 2h sword from my bountiful map ina t8 delve. dw frost spec. feels bad bro. both soulbound and not warbound or else i would use them on my fury warr alt…
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Frost is spec that allows for bisexual weapon choice. People can play it either dual wielding one handers, or using one two hander. This expansion is great because both have viable gameplay.
All specs in the game should allow you to choose whether you want your one hand or two hangers to drop for your loot. It sucks grinding for that high end gear just to have the weapon drop be the type you don’t use.
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I never said it is. I said that a 10% difference makes it unplayable and that’s a fact.
Even if the Breath+Oblit build performed the exact same as the DW Oblit builds or we ignore Breath+Oblit builds, that’s still a 5% gap which is as much of the spread as Single-Minded Fury vs. Titan Grip, which is an entirely dead & unplayable [on the high end] choice for Fury.
So again, it’s not only a horrible option against Breath in raids, it’s also [currently] a bad alternative against DW Oblit builds - both Shattering and non-Shattering - too.
People actively avoid taking talents that are 0.5% worse than another option; how is essentially saying “Choose a passive: one gives you 1% more damage, the other 6%, and the other 11%. You can only choose one.” not functionally the same? Playing 2h right now is the same as taking that 1% talent. It’s gimping yourself for no reason other than “lore”, “larp”, or “playstyle preference”.
And 2h being a “playstyle preference” isn’t even a thing; “Bigger Obliterates” is not a playstyle. “Does the Frost rotation but has bigger Obliterates” is not at all mechanically different from “Does the Frost rotation”.
Frost should be 1h loot table. Simple fix. That does not mean take 2h away.
Going to craft weapons anyway, so its not that big of a deal right now.
I do not understand why people make 2h/DW such a big issue. Why is it such a big deal to ask blizzard to buff/nerf their tuning mechanism to make each weapon choice viable. Its like people are emotionally against other peoples preference. Does it hurt DW players to have 2h viable? Or the other way around?
The demand or argument should be that blizzard do their job. They could literally just buff MotFW till 2h is within a few percent. Given how the new talents work, baking Fallen Crusader into MotFW would fix almost everything.
Asking for a players choice to disappear for someone’s personal feelings is a joke.
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Its 5%:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dXbim31ZokrTXkqMMDaqfD
2h is absolutely a different playstyle what are you talking about?
Neat. So not utterly, massively trash but still in SMF so not really an option for most competitive content.
It isn’t. Bigger numbers isn’t enough to justify a “different playstyle” when nothing else changes. You still get KM procs, still consume them at normal priority, still spend RP, etc. Less KM procs and bigger Obliterate damage is not a “different playstyle”, it’s literally just regular Frost.
You can get the exact same playstyle playing non-Shattering non-Breath DW. Shattering & Breath are different playstyles; they literally change how you play the spec. 2h and non-Breath/Shattering DW builds are not a different playstyle.
2h hits harder during CDs and DW is more consistent damage(along with being better overall) but okay.
Ill spell it out too:
The only place 2h can kinda compete right now is M+ with mobs where there are burst rounds or in pvp set ups. So yeah, different playstyle because you setup and burst more than you would have to worry about with DW.
Frost can build 2H. I understand you might not want to. That’s definitely frustrating to deal with. But don’t post like it’s impossible to play 2H Frost. There are builds for it.
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Sorry that you can’t cope with the fact that there are two semi-unique play-styles with several different variants for each weapon. The frost tree is designed so that 2H builds have viable options.
There’s a reason why we laugh at you in the DK Discord, you spout non-sense like X or Y is unplayable because of single-percentage sims in perfect scenarios. The vast majority of people that play this game aren’t robots, they aren’t playing perfectly and 5% doesn’t really matter unless you’re a CE raider.
People like you are why most people that actually enjoy WoW avoid these forums to get useful information and opinions.
For the last time, Frost is both a 2H and dual-wield specialization. If that wasn’t true, you would only see DW builds being played and simmed. There are situations where both are ideal, it’s not black and white.
If you don’t believe me, join the Discord yourself and try spouting your elitist opinions to the people actually playing the game and putting together builds for new players.
Viable just means it can work successfully. Just getting by is technically viable but people are not interested in “just getting by”.
How about you just go back to the discord, sounds like a place no one would want to be because you apparently laugh at others for… what exactly?
What I find hilarious is that people try to talk out of both sides of their mouth.
Frost is a DW specialization. 2h is suboptimal, that means its not the best or most favorable. Can you get by with it? Yes. But again no one actually wants information in just getting by.
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I am on the discord; likely longer than you’ve been there.
And my opinions - that 2h isn’t viable in competitive content and having bigger Obliterates isn’t a “playstyle” - are more or less shares by the discord community at large. You can ask for yourself and get the same answers.
You may not like it and “cope” here that 2h is competitive in high level content and completely different from DW but it’s not.
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And the reason why a lot of people (like myself) don’t do even light endgame content like raid pugs. Too many try hards arguing over a few percentage points or lecturing how our choices wrong. As long as stuff other than the players is dying, none of that matters.
These people live in their bubble of elitism and think their way of playing the game is the only way possible and that is gospel.
These guys are complete clowns that do nothing but sit on forums and discords all day rather than enjoying the game like the rest of us.
TLDR; Ignore the clowns and choose your playstyle and preferences that maximize your fun. These guys can’t think for themselves, they’re too busy letting a computer tell them how to play.
The spec said: 1H prefered weapon.
Justify getting millions of 2H before a 1H.
I can’t believe all these big rig haulers are so elitists when it comes to pulling heavy loads! Load up the Geo Metro if you want to and get to pulling that mobile home! Don’t use the right tool that was designed to haul heavy loads use whatever you want to.
Again, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. If you aren’t looking to be the best then you do you, but don’t then complain when people don’t want to bring you to groups. The WoW community is pretty bad in this department in how they treat each other.
I mean, I understand your analogy but it really doesn’t make sense here. The difference in 2H vs DW sims aren’t so far apart that you are griefing your raid or M+ group.
If you are a CE Mythic Raider, you are naturally going to play exactly how the computer program tells you too.
Realistically, most people coming to these forums are raiding a mix of Normals & Heroics. I don’t know if you’ve seen the average PUG Raider, but their weapon type is definitely not the issue with their performance.
If you’re playing your build as well as it can be played and doing the required mechanics, I have never seen a RL kick someone out for not playing the highest simming build ever in even heroic.
The point is, 2H does on average sim lower but if you have a significantly higher ilvl 2H (which is easier to get one of), that gap isn’t as big as you might think.
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It doesn’t matter if people are raiding heroics, normal, LFR or doing delves, you clearly haven’t encountered another person in the game. If you aren’t the best build then it’s a crap build.
Go ahead and play whatever you want to, but others are going to judge your choices because the top ALWAYS influences and dictates what the bottom does.
If you need a higher ilvl 2h to be at our DW, then 2h is basically dead. That’s the reality because we seen it before in SL.
weird, when I am in Frost loot spec all I get is 1H…I have to force it to give me 2H MOST of the time.