Pleasant experience in +12 keys

Community General Discussion
1

It’s weird, I always complain about how awful/toxic low M+ keys are. Yet I recently started to do 12’s…I never pushed for score/portals previously, but I kind of want the “legendary” achievement/mount thing they added this season.

So far my experience in 12’s has been vastly different then lower keys. People seem more “chill”.

One run we go in, tank does a huge pull, ends badly, we wipe. Instead of anyone getting mad or leaving, the keyholder says it’s a resilient key, so we walk out, reset, do it again and manage to time the key.

In another one, these people must have been friends or something, LOTS OF TALKING, through the whole dungeon there was text chatting happening. We had a death in the teleporting part of Theater of Pain, and for some reason the person released and then instead of waiting for the orb takes the long way back wasting time. Yet nobody quits, we keep pushing ahead, and we did make up time elsewhere by a good skip and managed to also time that key. It was close like under 1 min left, but still timed it.

I am just not seeing the issues of rage quitters in 12’s. When a key goes wrong, people just say something about it’s bricked/wont time and then it’s like a more mutual quit. Or we just keep pushing and sometimes get a surprising timing of a key, or just finish the key for the vault.

It’s just interesting to me from a social standpoint, people often call people who do harder content things like “elitist” etc but I am seeing a pattern with M+ that most issues are in the lower end, and the higher you go, the better players you find, but also the nicer people seem to be. Weird, right? :person_shrugging:

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M+10 and below is for people who want M+ gear, including some people who want to be there, and M+12 is generally only for people who want to be there (and maybe some people who want the KSL mount)

Expectations in 13+ are the same - time or stop, and mismatched expectations aren’t a problem anymore. Vs in 9 where you might have someone who wants to complete it for the vault, even over time, and others who want to time it to get a 10 key or quit to try and 2 chest their 8

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Hmm, maybe they should have done resilient keys for all key levels.

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Resil keys definitely seemed to have alleviated some of the pressure of failure. I’ve been in runs where the group agrees to just reset and try again after mistakes. It’s refreshing.

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Nah. Once you get to 12s you’re at the cusp of the point of pushing for fun or personal challenge rather than gear rewards. M+ is an infinitely farmable challenge mode. There has to be a downside for failure, and that downside is key depletion. The alternative is getting zero rewards for not timing.

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In my experience, most players are chill at all levels of M+, but the dysfunctional players - the ones with anger issues and poor social skills - get stuck at lower levels. People who struggle to be civil in a group environment are much less common as you go up in ++ and the groups require more cooperation. There are exceptions, of course, but also high correlation between ++ and players ability to function as a decent human being.

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Part of improving as a player is realizing, admitting, and then working on your own mistakes and shortcomings. The ragers are incapable of doing that, and that’s why the 4-8 range is so bad. You have bad players refusing to admit that they’re bad.

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I’ve said it before and I will always say it. “Casual” players are by far the most toxic group towards each other. You will always find the most bile in your low key range where u have people convinced that everyone else but them is the problem. Higher you go the more people realize that mistakes happen in the game and move on.

Yep exaacctly, like any game with ranked you have the people with 0 game sense and knowledge that cry “MY TEAM MATES ARE SO BAD!” not realizing they are doing the same exact things if not worse.

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9

This.

People doing higher keys genuinely want to be there.

People doing lower keys just want it to be over.

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Toxicity are on low keys. There are 2 kinds of Toxic in there. When the Carry became Toxic becoz people left his key becoz of wipefest bricking his key. The second kind is when the Carrier became Toxic, feeling so perfect that he leaves bricking the key becoz of 1 mistake from the group .

Why are there no Toxic on 12’s? Becoz there are no Carry and there are no Carriers on 12’s. Everyone in the party is a team member who has a role to make the dungeon run successful.

Also, 12’s are resilient keys. No reason to whine when you fail.

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People only do lower keys to boost alts and they make pugs carry them.

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Its because the people in a 12+ are also 12+ in age because 8 year old’s wouldn’t have made it that far and would have quit WoW to go play Fortnite by then.

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I pugged some 10s recently, unusual for me as normally I have a set group but I wanted to fill out crests before our Sunday raid. An evoker was doing less dps than me the entirety of one of them (I was tanking), we failed skips, we wiped due to random dps pulling extra mobs, not a single person said anything negative the entire time. I have half a mind to proclaim that the people complaining about “toxicity” bring it upon themselves.

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Ppl actually try in 12s because if they don’t, the key will brick. 12 is also where the crests and valorstones cap, so it’s a good farming level.

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It’s really helpful in Priory where the first pull makes or breaks the key.

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12’s are definitely less toxic than lower keys and usually easier. I think most people that despise M+ have never gotten out of the 2-7 dumpster fire of players that want to be carried or low geared alts of high IO players that bail at the first sign of difficulty.

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They are so close to understanding but they cannot see…perhaps today my words will reach them.

Issue is and always has been bad players. People don’t get upset from small mistakes. They get upset at people who joined their group wanting/needing a hard carry.

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people at the actual top end have a knack for helping others in the game. they arent berating people that dont have as much score as them or anything of the sorts. If anything you rarely see those players because they play together mostly and atypically pug, but when you do see them its just chill and maybe you will even get a nugget of a tip in the run somewhere.

its the next 25% of players under the top 10% or so (generalizing) that think theyre hot :poop: ( and can be it if they actually werent lazy af and put in the small amount of info gathering and practice) that seems to run their mouth in groups or have poor attitudes and zero patience.

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19

yep, that is exactly how my experience has been. i’ve run into like two jerks so far this expansion. i’m hardly pushing the bleeding edge of keys but if you’re reasonably close to “the curve” i think your experience will generally be good.

for the few people who experience toxicity in every single key they join, the problem might be you.

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feel like resilient keys are a huge part of that