3 times now you’ve skipped over the part where this system has already been implemented in other games in a similar fashion and is disliked.
“Trust me bro”
Like I’ve already said, I’m not dealing in the hypotheticals of this anymore. The system is a bad idea as a bandaid fix to a gapping infected gash. Its bad in overwatch, its bad in league, it would be bad in wow. Just fix the root problem which is healers being a mandated role that no one (statistically) wants to play.
I’ve already addressed how to fix the only hypothetical flaw you’ve brought up, and a cursory additional look into people’s grievances with the system Overwatch uses reveals that they were at some point not enforcing a 2:1 ratio within the system. I don’t recall them giving out 6 tickets for a single flex win when it came out, but of course that is going to cause issues. It’s also not what’s being proposed here.
A system where you had to win 4-5 rounds as a healer per token would work precisely as has been described.
It doesn’t exist in League. Autofill is not the same as this at all as it is not optional. The system proposed in this thread offers an additional option that benefits everyone, including those who do not avail themselves of that option.
Autofill is also not hated in League. There are those who say the same BS as you do about being willing to wait 5 additional minutes for their proper role, but without autofill that is not the extra wait it would be. The queues you would experience without the very infrequent autofill games would (and have, every time they’ve tried to tighten that kind of thing up for higher Elos) cause mass whinging.
I agree that supportive roles need to be phased out, but this attitude of all or nothing is moronic and childish. You know that that isn’t going to happen anytime in the near future, if ever, so what purpose does your tantrum in this thread serve?
I could see it being an issue where it ends up just being a “chore” players feel forced to do prior to playing the role they’re actually interested in. Probably not something the devs would be happy about.
I could also see it being abused where people just keep a healer at very low mmr for easy wins. If you climb too high just throw games until they’re easy again. So you might have this huge bubble of very low mmr healers then a giant drop off at higher ratings where all the dps with “fast pass” tokens are queueing. Not really a great experience for all involved with healers throwing games and doesn’t help the queue much past ~1200 mmr.
If i was throwing a tantrum I’d call you names or insult you as a person which I haven’t once. You agree with my premise but just feel like arguing semantics and theoreticals and honestly I just cba
Pmuch, and theres no eloquent way to ensure people cant abuse this.
If you were throwing a tantrum you’d be making outlandish emotional demands because it feels good for you to do so, which is precisely what you’re doing.
Not arguing semantics. I’m arguing for the game to be improved in a tangible way that can be actually done now or in the near future.
Most systems have abuse cases. If you require 4-5 round wins as a healer you would need to play two matches, on average, to earn each token, with an enticing chance to one-round it. It would be no small feat to maintain a healer at an Elo where you can effortlessly one-round it every time. If you were saving time overall at all it would be marginal, and in the process you would be exposing your account to punitive action.
Healers are an unwanted role to play yet is also mandatory to participate in content
Healers have been unwanted every expansion in all forms of content, not just dragonflight
This applies to not only other MMOs unilaterally, but also any multiplayer game of any genre to feature a mandatory support/healer role.
My suggestion: Remove healers, make them supports, make them non mandatory, rebalance the game accordingly. Its a bad old RPG trope that only exist because of tradition.
This isnt emotional its logical. I dont care for copium takes on how we can tippy toe around the big issue of healers are mandatory+ healers are not fun to play= bad game design.
I never said it wasn’t tangible, I said it was basically inconsequential and a waste of developer time and effort. The present day is; PvP and WoW at large is effectively in maintenance mode with bi weekly number changes that don’t actually fix anything wrong with the game on a core level. That only leaves the future and I do NOT want to see another expansion with bare minimum effort towards modernizing the game.
If im being completely honest I think advocating for something as lazy and hackneyed as a priority que is reflective of how little faith you people have in blizzard (which is justified to be fair) and just want to eat any crumbs they might give you.
Back to semantics. All Ill say on this is requiring wins to earn hypothetical priority que tokens is an even worse idea than priority que itself.
The idea that it’s going to happen is illogical. Your refusal to accept that that reality is emotional. You’re interjecting pure fantasy into a practical discussion.
You are untethered from reality if you think Blizzard is going to ever drop the support role. The absolute most we could hope for is turning every healer into something akin to Augmentation, but even that wouldn’t be for multiple expansions. It’s not a matter of faith either; it’s just their design for the game. They won’t even commit to tanks being exclusively PvE specs.
You really need to look up what that phrase means. We aren’t disagreeing over minutia just because I happen to agree that support is design dead-end.
And you absolutely must require wins, because otherwise the system won’t maybe be abused, but rather will be abused as a matter of course and by everyone. If you just have to endure two healer games then that is the path of least resistance and people will try just hard enough to not be provably trolling. Requiring wins aligns the goal of the volunteer healer with the goal of the match. Trying to game the system from that point would be, as I said earlier, likely as much effort as just playing it straight. It further goes against inertia, which leaves the intended use of the system as the path of least resistance.
Its illogical for me to make a suggestion based on legitimately factual observations? What?
yeah youre just actually not reading a word im typing… Just trying to argue a point you already agree with for what man? Bored?
It is illogical for you to derail a thread with your tantrum. You don’t have a suggestion, or an idea. What you have is a delusion that bears no relevance to what is being discussed. What you’re doing is like interrupting a discussion about practical measures to help care for the homeless with an idealistic proclamation that the only real solution is to end homelessness forever, and that anything other than that is a waste of time.
Mhm yeah true bro nice dodge have a good night man.
Two things.
As the lines get shorter, people that normally wouldn’t queue up because of the long lines all of a sudden will start to participate. This adds even more DPS to the line.
Healers that normally wouldn’t DPS because of long lines will now play DPS reducing the amount of healers in the queue.
It’s no surprise that the long waits for solo shuffle turn away a lot of DPS players. I’m not sure what that exact number would be but the point is the shorter the lines, the more people that will want to wait in it. This could create yet another bottleneck
I’ve already acknowledged this oscillating effect.
The system would be entirely self-regulating and overall would yield lower queue times.
What did I dodge, pray tell? Accurately describing your useless non-contributions doesn’t feel like dodging anything if I’m being honest.
The lines may get shorter but by how much. I think a better solution would be to add solo shuffle 2’s that was DPS only and that would remove a sizeable chunk of DPS players from the queue altogether
No one can know the exact numbers until implemented, but our current queues are the result of a relatively small imbalance of healers. We need 1/3 of players to be on a healer at any given moment and we have ~1/5. 19% vs. the 33% we need. Because this proposed system siphons DPS into the healer role, it would only need to draw 7% of the DPS population into the healer population at any moment to eliminate queues (almost) entirely. Now, all 7% is unlikely, but 2-3%? A lot less unlikely, and if we bridged even half the gap like that you might be looking at cutting average queue times by 30% or so.
The problem wouldn’t be fixed entirely, but it would be lessened considerably. Nothing else is going to have anywhere near that kind of impact outside of utter non-starters like removing the healing role.
Maybe, but you’d end up with two worse iterations of SoloQ. Even with a game like League (i.e. a game with a gigantic playerbase) they take adding queues very cautiously and seriously due to the deleterious effect it has on every queue you end up with.
The specs are not at all designed for 2v2 so you’d end up with a hyperstratified ladder, and probably pretty quickly a complete abandoning of that queue by any DPS that needs a healer to live more than 5 seconds. That would further result in the queues themselves being sorted by DDs that don’t have a miserable time in 2v2 playing 2v2, and then everything else being the only thing you see in 3v3.
I just don’t see them suddenly doing a 180 on the legitimacy of 2v2 as a format as a solution to a problem with 3v3 shuffle.
To be fair I don’t think all the specs are well designed for 3’s either. Solo shuffle wasn’t designed to accommodate for healers one bit and it shows
This seems like it would almost certainly result in a new subset of games where the healer that queues into your group is playing half assed at best, afk at worst, just to get their quota of healer queues.
I can totally see people throwing on some youtube and eating a pizza while queueing up as healer.
If your game has a shortage of a specific role being filled, you need to address that core issue. Bandaids like what you suggested seem like a horrible idea.
They should only give the priority token to healers that won, and the token also would need to be attached to the rating the healer was playing… For example, if you win games as a healer at 1500, it will work for DPS queue in that range. Not for 2000.
If not like this, surely ppl would abuse it and the whole idea would be a fail.
What if Im a 2k healer main but a 1500 DPS? Im just screwed. And whos to say what the range would be? 1500-1600? 1500-1750? I suddenly win too much and now im being punished with no more “usable” tokens for my dps range?
This system is just a bad idea and always has been a bad idea.
I think the inverse situation would be fine. If you played as a 2K healer, its fine allow use that token at your DPS 1.5k, bc you got it in a higher rank.
But in the opposite, I dont think it’s good… It can be used as a abuse to get faster queues in higher ranks (where less ppl play), playing as healer in lower brackets (where more ppl play).
They already have it. The achievements like Challenger, Rival, Gladiator… Those achievements divide the players in ranges.
In that way, if you played as a healer in Rival (1800 if i’m not wrong), so… You can spent your tokens as DPS up to rival.
But if your DPS is Gladiator. Then sorry. You will not get any priority. Unless you go to Glad in your healer too.
How about we simplify it and not require that there be a healer on both teams? How about all dps 3v3 matchups? That would do more to fix queue times than this nonsense.