Don’t get me started, I took classes on Chess back in high school.
On a career level, Chess players measure their ELO score based on their performance against ranked opponents and their ELO raises or lowers depending on their opponent’s ELO score. You can see it most clearly on the aptly named chess.com. As players progress and raise their ELO rank, their ability to evaluate board states and choose the best available moves in each state improves.
On a more micro-oriented game level, the value of certain moves is usually determined by how they progress the board state. The early, mid, and late game stages of Chess have objective transition points with each stage having a different goal. The early game is to set up for a favorable midgame, the midgame is to simplify the board, and the end game is a routine sequence that you either know or you don’t. (Rarely actually played out. Once both players identify what endgame they’re in the losing player usually concedes.)
Different board states can be scored based on the relative strength of each player’s position and what attacks they have available on the other player. As you make you’re moves you’re aiming to secure a stronger board position, advance towards the next game state, or to progress an attack on your opponent. Usually the best moves do all of those at the same time.
You are assuming people are having fun and are not just goign through the motions for other reasons like FoMo or the emotional investment of not being considered a “good player”, whatever that means in their minds.
I think there are more of them than many of you want to admit.
Do people play Space Spreadsheets… I mean Eve Online? Absolutely, but it’s a very small niche of players who find playing business tychoon the “fun” part of a space ship simulator game.
You’re right, my memory failing me since it was so long ago. It wasn’t that they were casting two Titans at a time, it was that the order of the Titans mattered because in Heroic the Titans would overlap with other mechanics. So we needed to luck into the correct Titan order in order to avoid the worst mechanical overlaps.
Thats what is correctly called the meta-game. There is no progression built into the rules of chess while you are playing it. That’s the point I’m trying to make. That players then outside of the rules of the game compete against each other with a scoreboard/leaderboard and through tournaments is something outside the context of playing the game cchess.
Part of what they did on mythic is they cut the time between the torments in half (IIRC 90 → 45 seconds), but fixed the order (fire, old men, spread, dot/heal IIRC).
There was also a 4th boss, but she didn’t really do much.
Going back to my previous comment and this response, as well maybe a more simple board based game with a victory condition (Snakes and ladders) Chess does have a sense of progression, it is just so infinitely complex that being able to understand it within the course of a game is not feasible.
If a person were able to, without fail, accurately evaluate any chess position, they would very clearly have a sense of progression as they watch their advantage increase with every passing move or inaccuracy from their opponent. Or more intangibly as they lead that person into a sharper and more difficult to evaluate position.
But that’s still progression. FOMO is just a predatory practice of exploiting the fear of lack of progression.
Let’s talk Gacha games ('cause I play Opera Omnia). The entire idea is that your account’s ‘progress’ is measured in your roster; how many units, how well developed, and how many are meta (and generally that’s the order of import, meta units while incredibly powerful aren’t draw-or-die like some others). EVE Online also has progression, hell, its progression measured in REAL TIME (1y to train Capitals V? See you blokes next summer!). Or even Warcraft itself; an RTS that values unit and tactical knowledge that only develops over the course of playing the game.
Again, progression is in every facet of gaming, because it’s just how humans Do Things.
You appear to have somehow missed the entire second part of my post. Reposting it for your convenience, I didn’t realize it was that difficult to see.
If we wanted to make a truly apples to apples comparison, there’s no progression in a single M+ run or raid fight either since you’re not going to see your IO rise or any loot drops until after the fight is over. Or at the very least, you progress through an individual fight the same way you progress through an individual game of Chess. You make a sequence of choices to move to progressively stronger board states until eventually you can declare a winner.
SAME. It is annoying to be pigeon holed into a build for single target and one for AOE. I miss the days when i could just pick the best build for dungeons and run with it. or Raids etc. Not this single target vs AOE thing going on now.
I disagree that that is Progression. That’s not what is generally meant. That the game “progresses” from begining to end is being a bit pedantic about the word itself.
You aren’t “progressing” in the sense that we all can agree is what is meant by the term in video games, the advancement of a player or character on some abstract and arbitrary scale established outside of the context of the game being played.
I feel like this presupposes that the player learning and becoming better at the game over repeated plays isn’t a form of progression. To use my portal example from earlier, is it not progression as the player first learns to solve puzzles with one portal, then with two, then learns advanced tricks like how to conserve momentum through portals? The game doesn’t advance their character or grant them any rewards other than the credits screen for their deeper understanding. But it’s hard to say that the player isn’t progressing as they play.
I’ve never heard progression used the way you describe it here. Every time I’ve heard the term, the context made it clear that the player becoming better at the game was also included as a form of progression.
What is Progression in the context of Mythic+ is the key used to allow entry into the challenge itself.
In a video game context, you have to complete the first level before moving on to the second level. eg Super Mario Brothers.
There are games out there that aren’t governed by such linear rules and which provide a more open design. COuld it be argued that a player Progresses through stages in some game or another as they complete challenges? sure… but that’s not what we talk about when we talk about big P progression mechanics in a game like WoW.
Why does Overwartch need a progress bar in it? Is it impossible to have fun queueing up for a match and having fun without the end of the game advancing your progress bar to the right?
That’s Progression in video games and NO it doesn’t need to be a component of every form of game play.
OW is a bad example of progression. When you can win all your matches and not move up, something is busted. Now, I understand population begins to to lower in each rank but what are the chances of all tanks, dps, or support winning all their matches as well.
