Hey everyone,
I recently watched Ian’s presentation on class balance, and something caught my attention: while real balance is better than ever (with most classes within a 4% range of each other), a lot of the frustration players experience seems to stem from perception. Particularly in PvP, there’s a lot of focus on how we feel about our power levels rather than how they actually compare to other players.
This got me thinking—what if we could offer players more control over their power distribution? Instead of relying on external systems that often feel mandatory or forced, how about we give players the ability to directly adjust their damage vs. defense?
Here’s the concept:
A Player-Controlled Distribution of Power:
Players would have a special window (perhaps in the talents or character screen) that lets them allocate a set number of points (say, 10 points) into damage or defense. This could be a simple sliding scale that allows them to fine-tune their build for specific situations. The more points invested into damage, the greater the loss in defense (and vice versa).
For example, in PvP, a player could choose to put more points into primary stats, versatility, or stamina (for defense), and in exchange, they might sacrifice some damage output. Players would be able to feel the immediate consequences of their choices, giving them control over how they play.
Why I think this is a good idea:
- Addressing Perception: Many players feel like they’re underperforming or that some classes are just more powerful. By giving players the option to choose their balance of power, it puts them in control of how they perform. No longer would they feel like they’re at the mercy of RNG or external systems like covenants or borrowed powers.
- Risk and Reward: By making damage and defense choices a direct trade-off, it creates a risk-reward dynamic. Want more damage? Be ready to lose some defense. It forces players to think strategically about their strengths and weaknesses, especially in high-stakes PvP.
- Simplicity: We’ve seen a lot of systems come and go over the years, but many of them can feel overwhelming or complex. A basic system focused on damage and defense would be easy for players to understand and use, without complicating gameplay too much.
- Personalization: Players have different playstyles, and allowing them to adjust their power distribution means they can tailor their characters to fit their preferred approach. This could be particularly helpful in PvP, where one player might want a tanky build while another might go full glass cannon.
Some things to consider:
- Balance Complexity: While giving players control sounds great, it introduces a potential issue of complexity. There could be a “right” or “wrong” way to allocate points, and players might feel penalized for making suboptimal choices. Balancing this with the rest of the game’s mechanics would be key to keeping things fair.
- Abuse Potential: There’s also a risk of players abusing the system by stacking too many points in one area, particularly if there are no restrictions on how much damage or defense can be gained. I imagine Blizzard would need to find a way to prevent players from breaking the system or rendering some classes/abilities overpowered.
- Impact on Other Systems: One of the challenges would be how this interacts with existing gear and class abilities. Would players with more damage sacrifice so much defense that they’re too squishy for certain content? Would high-defense builds be so unkillable that they’re overpowered in specific situations? It’d be crucial to ensure that this system complements other mechanics in the game rather than invalidating them.
- PvE Considerations: While this is a great idea for PvP, it could also have impacts on PvE content. Players might over-prioritize damage for certain fights, potentially compromising their survivability in dungeons or raids. The system would need to allow for some flexibility in how these choices impact different playstyles.
Final Thoughts:
I think this idea could go a long way in addressing some of the balance issues we see in PvP, especially when it comes to player perception. Having a simple but effective system that lets players control their own balance would not only make the game more engaging but also give players a sense of empowerment.
What do you all think? Would you enjoy having this kind of control over your character’s power? How would you balance it to make sure it doesn’t disrupt the game’s other systems?
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Interesting take. But don’t we kinda lowkey do that today? I could go heavy vers/haste or trade some vers for mastery.
I do have a question, how does it solve the issue or change perception for a class/spec does low dmg and has poor survivability? Don’t we still need blizzard to step in and tune?
2 Likes
This is already in the game. It’s called stats. You can change all of them at will whenever you want just by making crafted gear
4 Likes
Balance is very tight in modern wow but that’s damage numbers on raid bosses.
Balance still feels terrible in PvP because frost mages are playing a Korean mmo with mobility
So it’s not really about players feeling any type of way, PvP is nowhere near as tight as raiding meters and it probably never will be with how different tool kits are.
2 Likes
For one, we already have this in a sense as others mentioned, particularly versatility. And currently I think the system is in a good place, you can choose to take 30+% vers or you can take 10% and more mastery or whatever.
But second, even though damage numbers may be similar among classes there are other aspects to consider that differentiate classes. Utility and mobility being two. Even though two classes, one ranged one melee, may have the same exact damage output. If one relies on doing that damage at range, and the other class isn’t mobile enough to connect, while the ranged class has more utility to keep the melee at a distance… welll, those damage numbers mean jack diddly, and it doesnt matter what stats they chose.
perception would change when blizzard balances the game and not balance around addons. this post is pointless
This is what we have now but just with stats.
I dont think this is the fix to a players perception of balance.
When I play anything than my main sometimes I feel likewhatever spec Im using is bad and need buffs when in reality Im just not good enough at it.
No system will change that me thinks. Its just a knowledge/skill/experience check
Tldr but class balance is not within 4% in pvp. Pvp has modifiers and also classes have kits.
The root issue of wow pvp is two fold.
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some kits synergize way too well together and so some classes have lots of classes to play with or will always be meta. Example is rogue and mage.
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the community somehow convinces itself that the game is fine when certain specs are ok to be the top specs because they’re perceived as higher skill cap so nobody likes when classes like dk, dh, hunter, etc. are top classes even though hunter and dk are the hardest specs to climb 3v3 with probably every season unless they’re heavy tuned in damage. They immediately get nerfed. No classes want to play with these kits.
The weaker kits need a major overhaul. I don’t think we should make the other kits worse with control because the game is already becoming too damage / M+ focused in pvp. The other kits need uniqueness to them that makes them synergize with more kits in a way that it is useful to have on the team.
Dk has grip, that’s great and unique but they don’t have survivability. Tools like dark sim are awesome but those micro out plays don’t change outcomes in the games. Hunter has nothing that you wouldn’t get from another spec better. Evoker has unique pvp talents that are cool but they nerfed them and the range issue is horrendous. Also those micro out plays just don’t matter once again.
Look at feral vs rogue. Which one has better damage, survivability, and control the current season? Play that. There’s nothing unique about one vs the other.
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its cause of gear and quick reroll now
in vanilla crap specs ran around in naxx gear still owning you while horde won every battleground and people thought shaman is op
AI posters are worse than classic warlocks
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From a math standpoint this would make balance much, much, much, much worse. From a psychology standpoint everyone would move the damage slider to the max and arena would be nothing but people trying to one shot each other. This would also do nothing to solve your stated problem, which is influence people’s perception of their own class power. You’d just be balancing the min/max for each bar.
I appreciate new idea posts, but I think you are missing Ion’s point. He’s not saying that the system is missing something particular, but rather the only way to tackle balancing is to make constant adjustments so perceived power is always a week or two away. That’s the example he gives in his talk.
Ion’s saying that there’s no way to balance PvE or PvP, so instead they are going to focus on:
- Creating continual novelty to keep good systems from stagnating in the minds of the players.
- Continual buffs for stragglers and early season nerfs for leaders so that people don’t feel compelled to play FOTM. Eventually your beloved thing will get a buff and you’ll be on top for period of time.
No matter how many system points you spend on Versa or pure damage, fighting a mage as a warrior for example, will always be horrible (and probably vice versa if you’re a noob mage), because it’s not about points, damage, power or whatever you want to call it. It’s about how unfair one class’s toolkit feel compared to another’s. Your primary class choice shouldn’t condemn you vrs others.
People haven’t figured out the tech.
Once you get AI to spit out some stuff, use free “Humanize AI Text” GPTs to sound like a normal human being. People have been using it for essays and stuff.