And some of us want to play an expansion like TBC instead of ‘raid or die’ WoD.
It doesn’t help that judging by their track record, their chances of making it are very slim.
When though? Most of us aren’t going to wait around half the expac like we did for bfa when azerite gear was a flop.
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please, do explain how covenants make the game anything like tbc.
Not to mention that most people don’t consider WoD a good expansion, so I’m not sure why that’s your counter example…
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Aldor and Scryers ring a bell? Choosing a side, making a hard choice that can’t be changed on a whim?
But nah, get rid of any uniqueness. I’m sure Mythic Raiders will start benching less then.
That’s the ultimate scenario you’re gunning for. All that matters is raiding, everything else must contort to that end.
No thanks.
I was unaware aldor and scryer determined your gameplay and your aesthetic for the whole expac.
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You mean that thing that barely mattered and had almost no impact on your character? I thought you might use that, but man it’s even more stupid reading it than imagining it.
Funny, I seemed to be saying I wanted torghast to be both good, and more accessible by having no timers…
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They gave shoulder enchants that were like a 1% dps increase.
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Sure, but they didn’t have an impact anywhere near what an ability or a legendary have on your character.
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Oh ya I’m on your side 
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It’s just as stupid as a Mythic Raiders begging Blizzard to make the game easier for them, but here you are.
I’m surprised you even like Torghast. It has that dreaded ‘borrowed power system’.
You seem confused. I suggest you stop and reconsider our topic of discussion.
Well, I’ll bite. No, torghast isn’t a “borrowed power system”. It’s a self-contained gameplay mode. the powers inside it have no affect on anything but torghast itself.
That’s enough being off-topic from me though.
No, like anything unique, progression raiders have the phobia of hard choices. From racials to profession specializations, everything unique is an issue and must be removed.
Covenant abilities are no different.
All the torments they put in would be great as M+ affixes, so it’s not exactly wasted time - they were going to dedicate at least some development time to making new affixes anyway.
I’m fine with giving them time to experiment. They haven’t announced a release date, let them take their time and do it right.
I’m not sure I agree with that, which ones do you think make good affixes? Can’t say I’d enjoy any of them in a M+ run.
There are good ways to experiment and bad ways. Covenant abilities are bad. Like, there’s literally an endless list of problems with them, and Blizzard is going to make a system for each one of those problems before they’re done.
I wonder if you’ve taken a look at the paladin abilities. I think they make a good show of how the system is going badly. Particularly since the idea of a necrolord paladin aesthetically makes no sense. I’m going to be extremely upset if I feel compelled to choose them.
They cannot balance the abilities between all the specs, all the gameplay modes (pve, pvp, etc), the differences in utility they provide, the differences in aoe, and so on. There’s even an ability that doesn’t provide damage to you, but to your party, which barely does anything if you’re alone.
These types of differences cannot be made permanent choices at the start of an expansion with threat of Blizzard changing them when (not if) they fail their balancing. These types of choices cannot be made only considering a single spec, people like to change specs. These types of choices cannot be made under the assumption that a person only plays a single game type of pve or pvp.
I could go on, but I think I made my point, and numerous other people have made the point as well.
At what point do we stop “giving them time to experiment” with a fundamentally flawed system? In 6 months?
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The entire point of alpha is to experiment with crazy ideas that might never see beta, let alone live.
If they are still experimenting like this in beta, we have a problem.
Correct- that’s why the argument of “meaningful choice” doesn’t make sense.
That on top of the fact that the choices would still have “meaning” for lots of players in terms of performance and value to their group/raid if everyone could switch abilities.
I’m curious what your tune will be when beta rolls around and they’ve neither stopped experimenting nor decided to make them swappable or whatever.
Alpha is the time they need feedback that something isn’t working. I’ve done this song and dance before.
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I’ve given that feedback. On the alpha forums. With details on what sucks, and more importantly, why. I will never stop giving feedback.
I’m also not going to stomp my feet and demand Blizzard stop trying new things. That’s a great way to get a stagnant game with zero innovation and more of the same on autopilot year after year.
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That system is crap and while they tried to make it meaningful they failed completely. Choices in MMORPGs generally have strengths and weaknesses associated with them. Nothing says this has to be big. I understand your and many other peoples concerns that Blizzard will balance poorly (they usually do) then make nerfs (making a persons choice crap) and ultimately some players feel bad while others feel good (they didn’t get nerfed). That is not what the pro-lock people are all about. We just want choices to have strengths and weaknesses (a trade-off). It is up to Blizzard to make sure the disaster scenario does not happen and I will admit I do not have a lot of faith in that.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t try new things. I’m a great fan of torghast. I loved the troves of the thunder king scenario in MoP.
They’ve done things over the years with a lot of potential, not all of it realized. Covenant abilities have no potential. They’re not a fun timeless isle experiment, they’re not an interesting 3 person scenario that isn’t beholden to the role-trifecta, hell, they don’t even have the potential that warfronts and garrisons did, even if those failed.
Covenants are a terrible attempt at another borrowed power system whose only purpose is to screw the player over in some way. You know the whole “meaningful choice” everyone’s going on about? That choice amounts to picking which ability has the smallest downside. That’s not fun, or interesting.
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