Uhh⌠hello?
Your argument ends with that line.
The 60 versions of the blue PvP sets are the last version of the item. They are for all intents and purposes, the same items. I know you want to argue theyâre somehow different because they have different item IDs, but they require the same rank, replace the old items, and are sold by the same vendors.
The ONLY reason they didnât just update the item is because they were updating the level requirement of the item, as well. If they just modified the existing item, sub level 60s could be wearing level 60 gear.
Did you even read the Blizzard post? It mentioned several iterations of the same item ID, [Helm of Wrath], and it said Classic would only include the 1.12 version of that item as repeatedly going through various iterations of stat changes to that item.
The 60 armor are different IDs with different names, and different items of which you can own both, unlike the example that was used. Theyâre not the same items, nor for all intents and purposes the same items. Itâs also not how the other case of replaced rewards has been implemented in Classic. You do realize that they could have attributed any arbitrary ilvl to a lvl 58 req item if thatâs what they intended to do? The 1.11 patch notes quite rightly say that the new armor has been added, the same word used in the Classic itemization post.
One is modifying an item. The other is effectively replacing an item. If they wanted to give a lvl 58 requirement item an ilvl of 71 they could have. They didnât.
You could only own both if you got the old versions before the new ones came out.
Blizzard is using the 1.12 rewards and itemization. That means the rewards from 1.4 arenât available. Itâs a very simple concept.
The 60 versions replaced the 58 versions. Itâs not new, additional content being unlocked. In the case of whatever quest rewards you mentioned using the earlier versions, those should be fixed to provide what they did in 1.12 for consistency.
This is factually false and not how Classic is currently implemented, but somehow it is inconvenient for you and can be handwaved away.
The patch notes for 1.11 explicitly say they were added, and the itemization post talks about items added for catch-up purposes, which the 1.11 set clearly was.
Blizzard originally made the choice for the epic items to be modified to grandfather those items in. They made the choice to put in the 60 armor in Classic not because it is fully consistent with their design philosophy, but because they obviously want the blue armor strength to be consistent with the epic armor strength, even if it trivializes current content.
The problem is reward replacement, that is the combination of removal of one item and the addition of another, happened rarely and makes their design goals contradictory. Even the massive ilvl buff (not merely stat redistribution or fixes) to the epic set means compromises had to be made to value one design philosophy over another, but in that case, technical limitations made it easier to implement 1.12 stats, where as 1.12 availability is not actually being implemented for everything else.
Factually, itâs not the same thing as all the other changes, as much as you pretend it is. It isnât a clear cut case and it puts their design goals at odds with each other. Clearly the inclusion of the 60 set favors one of their design goals over another design goal, and implementation of these design goals has been inconsistent and applied on a case-by-case basis.
Thereâs absolutely an argument for just making a 1.12 private server clone, even if it isnât a good one. But itâs not a clear cut argument, nor have the officially stated design goals already been applied consistently. There are unusual cases, such as the PvP armor, which pit their stated design goals against each other.
At the same time, theyâre excising a unique experience that was available for the majority of vanilla just to make a 1.12 clone, which isnât even a faithful 1.12 clone. Letâs be honest too, 1.12 private servers developed into a state of PvP which doesnât reflect what was normally seen in vanilla. Naxx equipment, which was intentionally overpowered because of the expected TBC reset, was much more common. It forces any long term PvPers into a raid-Naxx-or-die or a twink-or-die situation. Classic canât recreate vanilla, but it can do some things with the goal of retaining some of the spirit of vanilla, in ways that arenât detrimental to players.
This addition basically harms no one unless youâre afraid of the 60 armor being taken away and you wanted it to trivialize current content, or youâre afraid that thereâs a slippery slope that if once previously available content was made available, then everyone might be riding unarmored mounts or collecting AV flavor text trophies some day.
Youâre extremely annoying.
Factually false?
Going in circles, at this point.
And the addition of extra mailboxes throughout the cities harms no one. I still donât want that change, or any change for that matter.
They chose 1.12 as their reference for the data, and otherwise gated content based on when it came out. As far as the PvP rewards are concerned, the level 60 versions of the blue sets are the 1.12 version.
If Blizzard is being inaccurate to 1.12 data/rewards elsewhere throughout Classic, it should be fixed to be accurate to 1.12. Just because Blizzard has been inconsistent in following their plans doesnât mean itâs okay to start doing things that never happened in Classic just because you like it.
Hey nolife, get a life and get over it, youâre entire argument is over the semantics of it being a different item id, its irrelevant, there wa at NO POINT in wows history where it was possible to purchase both the lvl 58 set and or the lvl 60 set at the same time.
The lvl 60 set replaced the 58 set and the 58 set was made UNOBTAINABLE thereafter, end of story, itâs not coming back.
That part is factually false.
I donât think itâs possible to engage in a logical debate with you. You have repeatedly fabricated demonstrably false claims to back up your argument, and simply choose to ignore or claim Blizzard has made a mistake with any non-1.12 implementation. Blizzard does favor 1.12 implementations, but has chosen non-1.12 implementations in multiple places when it is technically simple to implement, and they feel it retains some spirit of vanilla.
Thatâs not how the shaman helm quest reward is currently implemented in Classic, and they could simply remove the catch-up gear if that was your logical basis for the argument. Not being available at the same time isnât the same as being the same item. If they intended for them to be the same item, they would have just modified the stats.
And again, [Helm of Latent Power] is a solid example of where Classic has already implemented a reward that was later made unobtainable and was effectively replaced with a different item. Whether or not this item later becomes unavailable in Classic is a mystery, but itâs not really a solid argument since Classic has already crossed that line.
And to be clear, these arguments are to show there is room for interpretation in classic for a non-1.12 implementation, not that a non-1.12 implementation should be added for semantic reasons. This is apparently necessary because some people feel there is no room for deviation from 1.12 despite the various existing non-1.12 implementations in Classic.
The merits of how it would add to the game without taking being a detriment to anyone except those that somehow take offense at anything not 1.12 purism, have been detailed previously. The âsemanticâ argument is because of the extreme focus on one line of text, lacking context which was expanded upon elsewhere. Thereâs more room for interpretation, as well as other stated and sometimes contradictory design goals, beyond that one line of text. This is especially true when it comes to examining the relation of implementation to design goals, rather than looking at just statements of how things will be implemented. There is also the de facto argument that simply shows that many of the 1.12 purism claims are false. Classic is not 1.12 clone, and Classic deviates from a 1.12 in many ways, and that includes an example of a currently existing and prior implementation of a Classic reward that got replaced in later patches in vanilla.
Ok waste your time doing mental gymnastics to try and justify this CHANGE, it doesnât matter.
Its NOT happening, get over it.
Its already been explained to you MULTIPLE times that they couldnât just âchangeâ the set into the new set because they made the new set require lvl 60 INTENTIONALLY because its too powerful for the lvl 50-59 bracket, there were many lvl 58 and 59 characters wearing the old set so they couldnât just delete it from the game, they instead just outright replaced them from the vendor with the new lvl 60 set and then made the 58 set UNOBTAINABLE FOREVER.
Its NEVER coming back.
If by ârepeatedly fabricated demonstrably false claimsâ you mean quoted Blizzard directly and provided proof of it, sure.
As for them making mistakes, I never once said they didnât make mistakes. I explicitly stated, numerous times, that Blizzard has been inconsistent with their implementation, and I have a problem with that.
Please read:
Just because Blizzard got it wrong in some places doesnât mean I think we should do something that NEVER happened in vanilla.
Itâs one thing to use the earlier versions of quest rewards (either intentionally or through oversight); itâs another to suggest that the game be changed to do something totally different.
The choices are 1.4 or 1.11 versions of the blue PvP sets, and youâre saying âhow about both?â Both was never a thing in vanilla, so the answer is âno changes.â