I have killed/been eligible for EIGHTEEN bosses. I have won nothing for main spec and nothing for offspec. Why even raid.
0 / 18.
Really Blizz. How can everything else in the expac feel so good and raiding legit feels terrible now.
Group loot is so bad. It’s like taking a step forward and two step backwards. Why are we forcing guilds to do splits again to be competitive?? Being a top 200 world CE guild, I was just fine with the 12 hour raid day. Now you are forcing players to do splits, it’s so dumb.
Wondering if they are going to pick a direction to go.
A: Bring personal loot back as it seems to be most fair to the individual player.
B: Bring master loot back as its the most efficient way to outfit a guild team.
The current loot settings they have in game are the worst of both systems and highlight the worst sides of humanity, one being selfishness. I’ve seen countless players in my guild and in LFR just rolling Need because they can, let alone if its even “needed”
EG: Transmog Bro VS item level upgrades
Technically, with personal loot, everyone who could roll need on it, was rolling for it behind the scenes. So it’s really no different than everyone rolling need with the current system.
Taken from a blue post, posted back in September, this year:
As many in this thread have speculated, all players in Personal Loot were constantly ‘rolling’ behind the scenes, whether you wanted to or not.
Personal loot wasn’t some computer randomly choosing players out of the raid size, then randomly assigning gear to them. This means with personal loot, it really wasn’t that personal. It just meant the gear you won was more privatized. Again, everyone rolling need on items with the group loot system is no different than everyone automatically rolling for the item behind the scene with personal loot.
If i won 2-3 pieces already, i’d stop rolling need, taking 5 pieces is just greedy.
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/zyb1sv/who_thought_group_loot_for_lfr_was_a_good_idea/
“Who thought group loot for LFR was a good idea? Same guy got 3 pieces of loot from the same boss, 2 of them being the same tier piece (gloves). Meanwhile my gloves are still blue.”
*https://i.redd.it/v4g7xa45gv8a1.png*
-from Reddit Wow, user/Humbreonn
Just make PL for LFR, don’t punish us casuals
-me
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It is the fact we can now see the loot and the rolls that leave bad taste in the mouth of others.
Used to be killed boss, just gold sad. Team plays along folks end up trading things around < this will happen in any system.
Now it’s See item, get hope, roll and win Hope validated! Roll and loose sadness, look over at teammate who just won all 3 items with hate.
Some folks see rolling need on all as selfish and others see it as ok. Same with folks that put the cart back at the store and those that don’t.
I like to heal high mythic plus keys. Because I have not won or barely seen any tier, I’m not even close to sets. I’m being looked over for groups and despite being ilvl 401 I can tell my heals really need it for these higher dungeon bursts. Raids have never felt so frustrating and unrewarding. Nearly 30 boss kills between normal and heroic. Not one piece of tier.
It’s not the bad luck (which I have) that gets me, it’s people needing on anything they can. I think it’s been proven time and time again; you can’t put this type of power in the hands of pugs/LFR.
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Get rid of GL and PL. No gear drops whatsoever, just give currency that can be spent to buy the gear you actually want / need.
- Slows / eliminates artificial progression (feeding)
- Gives players a logical way to get gear, and not relying on “luck”
- Removes drama because there is no loot to have drama over
- No loot ninjas
- No unfair loot distribution
- No need to stack armor types in raids
What power? Players can roll need on items under GL and had no choice in the matter under PL.
Emotionally these two things are different, without a doubt. If that’s the angle you’re coming from then you won’t get any argument from me.
The problem I have is that most people make these comments in relation to who is getting the item when all is said and done. From a loot distribution perspective, GL results in the same or better odds at gear than PL for any player who rolls need on everything the system lets them roll need for. Every piece of gear someone didn’t get is a piece of gear someone else did.
What I’m saying is, people are needing for reasons other than the need of an upgrade (for gold, shards, w/e). That’s not the intent of the system and it puts a lot of power in the hands of people who just don’t care about other people …at least not in the world (of warcraft) that I live in.
How a roll system play out in guilds vs pugs is completely different.
You do not count as a creditable citation…
Actually, IIRC they removed bad luck protection with personal loot last expansion (and maybe the one before that too). I forget when they removed it but they announced they were going to when they did remove it. So no, Personal Loot didn’t have bad luck protection when we last had it.
In a vacuum I can understand that logic. If this were the first time a loot system were coming out, I could absolutely get behind that logic. It’s that as a comparison between GL and PL in terms of who gets loot, nothing changed. Nothing prevented players from selling or disenchanting the items PL gave them rather than trading it to someone who would equip it. If you got unlucky, which was the premise you outlined, the person who didn’t “need” the item for an equip gets it in both cases.
However, this is an area where GL increases your chances over PL. A player wearing the exact same item that dropped can’t roll need under GL while under PL nothing stopped that player from being given the item.
Then even though it’s a rarity in PUGs, GL gives players the option to pass further increasing everyone else’s chances. The “power” to need given to players with GL was the ONLY option under PL and with no consideration for what the player already has. The worst case scenario is identical to how PL functioned while anything better than the worst case improved everyone else’s odds when compared to PL.
Absolutely, and you aren’t going to find me advocating for any single loot system. The reality is that PL works best IMO in PUGs, just not for the reasons that most people discuss. It definitely feels worse to lose an item to a player who made a choice to roll against you than when an emotionless robot gives them the item.
Additionally, ensuring every item could be equipped is much better in a setting where there isn’t any expectation for cooperation and repeated raids.
PL should be the default option for PUGs with GL being an option for regular groups. But that’s only because of the psychological response to each loot mechanism, not the math driving your chances at loot. Even in a PUG, GL gives the same or better odds to get loot especially later in the season than PL. It’s just that most arguments advocating for PL back focus on the chance to get loot, in which their position is verifiably incorrect.
The only BLP system we had relating to boss kills were bonus rolls which went away in BFA. That wasn’t a modification to the PL system but rather a separate system that allowed players to spend a currency after a boss died for a chance to get an extra piece of loot. Unlike “personal” loot, the bonus roll system was truly individualistic, with your decisions having no impact on the loot chances of others.
The Legion Legendary system also had BLP in the way most people describe for PL. But like bonus rolls, whether you got a legendary was disconnected from the boss loot system. If t legendary dropped for you off a boss, it was an extra item specific to the person who received it with no impact on the rest of the group.
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It pretty much goes winning zero items for me.
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Ahh okay. I thought it was removed in general and not just the bad luck rolls but also if you didn’t get loot.
It would be mathematically impossible for a BLP system to exist that guaranteed a player receives a piece of loot after X bosses so long as each boss drops a finite number of items less than the total number of players in the raid. For example, if players are supposed to get an item after 5 bosses, the boss drops 5 pieces, but the raid has 8 players who are killing their fifth boss without loot, they all cannot receive an item. Such a thing couldn’t happen for consistent groups, but can as soon as PUGs exist.
It would only be possible if the items awarded via the BLP system were extra items on top of the items awarded normally. Whether there is a currency to exchange with player choice or if the system did it behind the scenes automatically, it has to be uncapped additional items. So long as the drops are limited, such a BLP system cannot exist.
Group loot is fine, IF they made it an option and If they made it so bosses drop +1 more item per boss.