I enjoyed that one of your articles literally contains a blue post advising the OP that what happened to them wasn’t ML abuse and advising them to find a group that uses loot rules they agree with.
At best, a Master Looter may be reported as scamming under specific conditions. Keep in mind that a Master Looter is aptly named in that they have near full control over how the loot is distributed. They can in most situations give any item that drops to whomever they wish or no one at all. It is entirely up to them.
You can progress easily enough but using a looting method that is more appropriate for a pick up group. We understand that folks are resistant to using Personal loot, it is why bonuses for using it have been implemented, but it is the best way for players to protect themselves from just this kind of incident.
So one of your examples as “PROOF” of how much this was abused was literally debunked by a CS and the correct response of “find a better group” was provided.
PL should absolutely be force enabled for pugs. It should maybe even be force enabled for groups that aren’t 100% guild members (thought this makes trialling players difficult) but groups that are 100% guild members should be able to choose the loot method they prefer.
I’m not sure what guilds you guys have been in but we never had issues raiding high end content and distributing loot fairly with Master Loot. Having both options available (Master Loot/Personal Loot) allowed guilds to choose how they wanted to distribute gear. I used to get excited for people who earned specific pieces they wanted after contributing to the success of the guild. Removing the ML option was just another step towards the RNG Casino we play everyday now in retail WoW.
You’re making this into an individual issue when it’s anything but. I’d argue that if ML is utilized by an individual then that is the epitome of a toxic guild that I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole.
ML is coming at the problem of loot distribution with a group mentality. That’s how it’s SUPPOSED to work. That’s how you use it correctly. When the individuals in the group put aside their personal wants for the betterment of the team. In other words… gear the raid, not the player.
Can ML be abused? Absolutely. I despise the people who do it. Hell I’ve been the target of ML ninja’s in WoD where I lost out on multiple pieces due to the “MS > OS rule.” Those are cases of individuals abusing a system that’s targeted at groups. Hence why they made ML unavailable for pugs in Legion. Hence why I’d want ML to return to 100% guild groups. As then it’s a team decision. If the RL is acting like a tyrant… then simply leave the team.
What you seem to not understand… is those RLs… They need you, more than you need them. Particularly if you’re a skilled player.
Ahh the “just leave” solution.
Naaa I didn’t make friends other then the raid leader that I enjoy grouping with or raiding with at all. NOPE NOPE NOPE in the minds of the people like you I need to dump all the people I like because 1 or 2 people are being jerks and they don’t see it.
Ohh yeah that is social. Just dump em, dump em all. They will learn not to be jerks with loot…OHH wait but the thing is THEY DON’T. If they did this problem woulda ended in vanilla. Nope these guild leaders make new guilds, they take new names, they get new people…they survive!
And I have do research and then spend weeks of my time trying to “spot the jerk” instead of just playing with the people I find cool.
All cause people can’t wrap their brains around the concept to not be a jerk with the power you have.
I said leave the raid team… Didn’t say stop being friends and playing with those players… Join a raid team that fits your playstyle and keep playing with your old friends in other content.
Also… Let’s be very clear on what I’m talking about. What I’m saying is that if you are currently in a guild, where the vast majority of the players in the team want to use ML, but YOU want to use PL. Call me crazy if you want, but I’d say that you’re the one being the jerk if you want to force the rest of the team to play how you want to play.
I’m not talking about a tyrant RL who’s trying to force you and your friends to use ML against your will. No… Screw that guy… Convince the others to leave and make a new guild. Give him an ultimatum and let him and his rules rot.
I want ML back in a form that can not be corrupted. I just don’t know how yet. I have seen it done well and I LIKED IT. I have also seen it done horribly in a soul shattering manipulative toxic way where I felt like the scum of the earth for just speaking up.
As for the friends, It’s hard when you leave you have a raid team you love. And when you do leave the RL makes half of them hate you and the other half agree to go on the friends list but realistically you only see/talk too 2 out of 20 of the people you used to be friendly with. So yes this truly does shatter friendships if your realistic about it and don’t just glaze over it to make yourself look right.
I don’t want to force PL on people but if ML goes back it will be forced upon many people who like PL. They will have to accept ML or leave and that’s NOT RIGHT ether.
I’m sorry but that’s just life and interacting with people. I know for certain that guilds that are actually wanting to clear raids on the hardest difficulty are much less likely to pull that kind of BS because when loot is distributed horribly, your progression becomes much, much harder. There’s leniency when it comes to Normal and Heroic because you can pretty much do anything with the gear and still be able to clear the raid.
For me, I’m just tired of a machine or system taking something out of my hands when the team I worked with didn’t even do anything wrong in the first place. And it’s even more frustrating when loot that could be used by others can’t be traded. They either need to bring back ML for guild runs only, or remove the trading restrictions.
Based on your situation I don’t think personal loot sucks, I think it needs to be amended to allow people in a group trade anything they want to trade, or at the very least 80% guild groups to trade things as they see fit.
So it’s ok to force PL on people who don’t want it. But it’s not right to force ML on people who don’t want it. That seems a bit hypocritical.
In either case… No one is forced to do anything. You are subject to your own choices. I prefer the game having choice over the game just straight up telling us how to play.
As for friendship… You get out what you put in. You could even leave well played alts in the guild to keep up with them. If you aren’t willing to put forth the effort to maintain the friendship, and they aren’t either… I wouldn’t say it’s a very good friendship to begin with. That’s more of an acquaintance.
Your right it is just life. I am explaining those details to the ML people. Cause they keep trying to sell ML back to me by trying to get me to believe that I can leave the guild and keep all my friends and everything will be sunshine and rainbows.
Did I say force PL on everyone? Blizzard is the one doing it. Don’t insult me by calling me a hypocrite. I want ML to be fixed but everyone seems to gloss over that point.
Ohh look you edited to insult me further, how nice. Thank you, you know nothing about me or my friends.
Calm down, I was looking at my words there and should’ve moderated my tone. I apologize for that. I’m not calling you a hypocrite and I’m not saying your a bad friend. I’m saying that the stance that a loot system being forced (by anyone, you, bliz, RL, etc) isn’t fair regardless of the system in question.
I don’t think it’s fair to force PL. I equally don’t think it’s fair to force ML. At the moment, we’re all being forced to use PL and I think we should be given a choice in the matter.
I get that there may be issues for some where they want PL and their guild wants ML… But I’d say that’s not really fair to the guild. It really is on you to create the gameplay that you enjoy. I don’t like that we’ve been forced to play the game how you want to play it.
As for friendship, what I said is true… Friendship does take maintenance. You have to input effort otherwise you’ll naturally drift apart.
We just hand over all non bound drops each boss and do it the master loot way anyway. You know, a guild working together because players are like minded. Funny concept I know. It really is just an extra annoying step but end result is the same, adapt and move forward.
they aren’t.
it’s as i said in my reply “or if it does, it does heavily modified and nothing like it was.”
Sure they back tracked on GCD, but it’s modified, definitely not as it was before the change (cant make a one shot macro anymore or anything close to one), and characters will still be pruned far beyond what we were during the Cata-WoD Era, Never will I have more spells than there are spaces available on my main action bars again.
So if they do bring back ML, it will have some catch… i.e. only for those who choose it… because they wont bring it back for guild groups, as that’s the reason why they removed it in the first place (abuse by top tier guilds).
