How so? It isn’t applying any sort of economic or military restrictions on the Horde, and it’s the truth. The Horde started this war with genocide.
I don’t know the details of it so maybe it’s inappropriate for me to chime in here, but I thought part of what led toward WW2 was the general sentiment that the German people thought they never lost WW1 in the first place, and that they only had to pull out because they thought they were stabbed in the back instead of actually being defeated.
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Hmmmm… I never heard that. It is possible though, if you look at the map, it would have been easy for one to think the Germans were winning WW1 when they surrendered. This, however, was not the case. Germany was suffering many military and civilian casualties from malnutrition, caused by the British naval blockade.
What cause WW2 was a mix of things. Mostly resentment. They blamed the Allies for the Treaty of Versailles, which crippled Germany economically so much to the point they had to take wheelbarrows full of money to the store to buy groceries. The German mark was so useless, it was cheaper to burn them instead of buying firewood.
Meanwhile the top 1% in Germany held more than half of the nations wealth. That top 1% also happened to be mostly jewish. There was also a lot of things going on with big business and jewish banks and so on and so forth that contributed to growing anti-Semitism in Germany.
The along came Hitler, a Charismatic, inbred sociopath who preyed on that German pain and resentment, eventually finding himself into a position of great power and authority.
Check your “psycho dictator that preyed on resentment” part. And you are either incoherent or intellectually dishonest if you believe criteria No. 5 does not come with the obvious economical, cultural and political punishments.
It doesn’t… because it is Criteria for me, the objective viewer. Not Criteria for the subjective Alliance PC.
Okay I wasn’t crazy. Here’s a wikipedia article about it if you’re interested in giving it a skim. It’s called the stab-in-the-back myth.
`https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
Technically I could make it a proper link, but the preview picture shows an anti-Semitic political cartoon as an example and I don’t really want that on my post.
Comes back after much needed rest. Looks around, blinks, walks right back out!
Oof, well I should still chime in since this is a rather heavy topic. As much as I still hold out and try to like blizzard games due to the many years they’ve been with me, the writers have gotten a lot worse at the whole “Show, don’t tell” aspect. So bad in fact that they almost always rely on “telling” and use the “Show” part to do some big impressive rule of cool that they’ll have to retcon later because it was too over the top.
As a pandaren, I’m expected to never really hold grudges (something I also strive in real life) and I’d like to believe I’m very empathetic to the point of being able to really put myself in anyone’s shoes. But I’m also a lore junky and my character has spent a lot of time in archeology heh. All this to say, history paints a funny picture after a while.
No species should ever be held to a generalized standard because everyone has the power to be unique or different one way or another. However, culture can lead to long periods of key traits and organizations have codes of conduct and expectations of their followers. All this makes sweeping generalizations incredibly easy for an outside viewer.
The fact is, the horde as a name and organization has a bloody history that somehow always seems to find itself being led by conquerors and warmongers. If it wasn’t for game play iconography, having Thrall name his new group “The Horde” was the single dumbest thing he could have ever done. Having a group of orcs call themselves the Horde anywhere near any single pink skinned biped should be giving them PTSD for years, and yet nah it’s all cool, Thrall’s got this they aren’t the same horde at all, wink wink nudge nudge.
No matter how you slice it, the Alliance will always view “The Horde” as this tumor of chaotic energy that seems to be nine times out of ten your enemy unless a world threat shows up. And it’s hard to claim you’re altruistic when you’re perceived as just saving the world because that’s where all your stuff is.
Because I would like to address it, in the case of the Mokra example, the sad truth is with the direction blizzard has taken, I would kill her. And then I’d read her diary (you know, like an evil alliance dirtbag!) and find out she really hated Sylvanas and the regime and I’d feel awful for what I did, but also angry that this war went the way it did because of how easy it was to sweep all these people under a rug.
Saurfang is the only person I know that actually screams in protest and yet part of me can’t help but hear him basically say he’s not actually sorry. He’s not sorry that thousands died, that a stupid war happened, or that he had a huge hand in it. He’s just bitter that his glorious war has been tainted by cowardly tactics. He doesn’t want another Garrosh, he just wants to punch alliance dogs in the face the good old fashion way and die a warrior and go to heaven with all the other viking/klingon warrior orcs!
You can’t tell me the alliance is winning and then show a CGI of their soldiers wounded by the thousands. You can’t tell me orcs are mad about the war and then show dozens of catapults burn down a tree. You gota make it shown that people are furious, otherwise I really will just assume they’re all cool with it like in MoP. (Only for the devs to then tell me “woah no no see it was actually the majority that joined Vol’jin’s rebellion! Yep, totally all hated doing what they did under Garrosh!”)
sighs
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Dear, if you need a “pick me up” then spend morw irl time with friends and family and maybe get a boy/girlfriend. A game wrote by clowns not interested in the basic rules of constructive creative narration is NOT the place to get your ego stroked.
What’s hilarious to me is that they consider themself objective.
Nice ad hominem… I mean, you like to just say things completely from a place of ignorance, so why stop now?
We are all objectively viewing the story, yes. Unless you completely refuse to watch, play or read anything from the side of the other faction, I guess.
“Objective” criteria No. 5 is an oxymoron… “Make the characters kiss muh blue behind but don’t make them pay actual reparations!!!” /facepalm
Apparently the only thing that needs repair is the fragile ego of some posters lul…
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So you think the Alliance is not morally superior to the Horde in this story? The faction that started the war with genocide?
I mean, you are the one all bent out of shape about your faction being the bad guys.
Why do you people do this?
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I find it interesting that all of these are about internal beliefs except for #2. At least, I think they are; it isn’t clear whether #5 has to be verbalized or not.
Well, first, you ask how I expect the Alliance to act and then ask how the situation ideally should be handled; they’re not necessarily the same thing.
I’m honestly not sure what to expect because I don’t know how this expansion is going to end. We’re all assuming it ends with SoO 2.0, Alliance (plus Honor Horde) victorious, and Anduin in Varian’s position with the decision of what to do about the conquered evil warchief and her followers. But it could just as easily end with N’Zoth rising and wiping out both sides, to the point where the Alliance doesn’t have the ability to hold trials for the Horde leaders.
If this were a real-world scenario, and the Alliance did win and had the ability to deal with the situation as they pleased, I think a combination of harsh punitive damages and enforced disarmament would be the most likely outcome. Along with imprisonment and/or execution of various leaders on the losing side.
Assuming this happened, the more interesting question would be whether the Alliance as a whole would then put any effort into making the defeated Horde into friends and allies. In other words, would they treat the Horde more like defeated Germany after World War I (the harsh Treaty of Versailles, which led to resentment and a new war a generation later) or defeated Germany after World War II (extensive reconstruction effort, which led to Germany becoming an ally of its former enemies in Western Europe)? It would likely depend on whether there is a Soviet Union analogue that the Alliance needs help opposing.
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This aspect is of it is particularly interesting to me. Because we are seeing basically the opposite of what we saw with the World Wars. Assuming the War with Garrosh was WW1, the Alliance’s treatment of a “defeated” (I use quotations, because the Horde was on both sides of the conflict) Horde was stern yet forgiving. It was an opportunity for peace if I ever saw one.
But that didn’t seem to work, and if the Alliance were to be put into that position again, I think it would only make sense for them to take the Treaty of Versailles rout. it is as if WW1 and WW2 happened in reverse order.
With that being said, I don’t think this expansion is going to end with SoO 2.0. I don’t think there will by any winners in BfA, especially after some spoilers I saw on Wowhead last night.
I was figuring the First-Second wars were WW1, in this situation.
Yes well, the writers can’t leave well enough alone. ![:sweat_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/sweat_smile.png?v=6" ":sweat_smile:")
But it’s not exactly a WW2 situation because there was less infrastructure damage done to the Horde in MoP than there was to Germany or Japan in WW2, and therefore there was no need for the Alliance to help the Horde with reconstruction. We do have Anduin on record saying he would help the Horde rebuild if it came to that. Are the writers tipping their hand about what’s going to happen next??
ETA: Of course, the true “medieval” solution, depending on what country we’re talking about, might well be to wipe out every member of every Horde race down to the last child, and level every structure they built as well. But I don’t think the politics of WoW are medieval in that sense.
In keeping with the original OP, now that I’ve had some time to think it over, I do think there’s a nugget of truth there, though the whole thing is obviously grossly generalized and pretty much meant as bait.
The Horde is an player faction, and not everyone likes being the bad guy. I think it speaks more to Blizzard’s imbalanced writing than anything else, rather than the mindset of Horde players. Let’s be completely real here, the faction lines in terms of playerbase have been blurred for years. I’m willing to bet a large portion of players on either faction were on the opposite faction for a time, as a main.
And for those people who don’t like to be called bad guys, there’s that very human need to try and offset that by pointing to the other side and saying ‘but they did this’. Look at all the threads about if Stormheim is justification for the current war, or how for years Camp Taurajo was a rallying cry.
Or, a better example would be Jaina. If you objectively look at all Jaina has actually done to the Horde up until this expansion, the vast majority is just mean words. You have the Purge of Dalaran, which is muddled enough because of the bugs like her water elemental attacking things she wasn’t, and… that’s it. There are plenty of ‘she almost did something’, but very, very little actual damage that is concretely canon. And yet we have player after player ‘when can we kill Jaina, why don’t we get to kill Jaina?’.
Hell, it’s not even just Jaina, Tyrande as well has been on the forefront of this, for literal mean words, both in Val’sharah, when Horde complained she was harsh to them, and then with the Nightborne, when people used her mean words to Thalyssra to justify the Nightborne going Horde.
No one wants to be a foil, and for the last 13 years Blizzard has treated both factions as a hero faction. I don’t blame current Horde players for this, of course, though I enjoy debating with them about it. I think if the situations were reversed, Alliance players would do the same thing.
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For real all the outrage is just a classic example of how people feel a need to justify their team when there’s a conflict. I think Blizz fully expects the faction playerbase to clash.
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Agreed. I would join the Legion before I forgive or work with the Horde again.
Next time there won’t be any internment camps.
Not much of a threat considering you’ll never have the upper hand again as long as WoW is a thing.
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