People Who Want a "Morally Grey" Alliance

[Galenar-khazgoroth (Galenar)]

I remember people whining about how immoral an act it was to shoot down surrendering soldiers ignoring the fact that, once they got back to shore, those Orcs would probably have tried to kill the Alliance present with their bare hands if they had to.

[Jmanwarrior-darkspear (Jmanwarrior)]

Tbh I forget why the Horde was there outside of their usual invasion schtick. I just remember Anduin being missing which is why we were there.

[Galenar-khazgoroth (Galenar)]

That was the reason. It was a shiny new land for them to conquer. Also the Alliance was there and they can’t have them getting control first.

[Jmanwarrior-darkspear (Jmanwarrior)]

Lol it figures.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

You have proven yourself to be a funny and self-aware poster. But even you have to admit that this is a “Human Paladin Thread”.

[Mellee-moon-guard (Mellee)]

That was Rogers, and I’ll keep saying that if Blizz really wanted a morally grey, Faction pride expansion Rogers shenanigans are exactly what they needed.

[Balrig-aggramar (Balrig)]

I’m an Alliance AND a Horde fan, i want both the Alliance and Horde to be actually morally grey, and perhaps similar to vanilla in the way of faction conflict. Right now the Alliance has every right to nuke the Horde of the face of Azeroth, they at the very least need to be morally grey, if not harsher.

[Cryptkeeps-thrall (Cryptkeeps)]

I’m not a Human Paladin and I think the OP is 100% spot-on with his post. Maybe he’s generalizing too much, but there definitely exist a certain set of Horde players who will justify any atrocity by looking back at anything Alliance did in the past other expansions and then continue to beg for more excuses for any atrocity the Horde are committing now. They even exist on this forum in fact and I certainly get that feeling from certain Horde players I see every time I look at this place.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with making the Alliance less Stupid Good or have greyer characters, but rarely do I ever see good ideas that would achieve that prospect without making Alliance look like a legion of evil.

[Grandblade-wyrmrest-accord (Grandblade)]

You have proven yourself to be a funny and self-aware poster. But even you have to admit that this is a “Human Paladin Thread”.

… yeah, this is pretty much the thicc of it, you’re right.

[Tannaril-area-52 (Tannaril)]

Killing civilians and innocents because of what someone else did isn’t light grey. It isn’t dark grey. It is black.

Galenorn’s not entirely wrong, though: if Tyrande did do all that, the writers would probably treat it as light grey.

They made Jaina “I tried to do what Syvlanas did” Proudmoore a noble hero, so yeah.

[Tannaril-area-52 (Tannaril)]

I have to tell you. Killing civilians and innocents because of what someone else did isn’t light grey. It isn’t dark grey. It is black. Taking revenge against people who weren’t involved is a villain trope.

No such thing as innocent Horde. Only complacent bystanders. They’ve made their choice.

Perhaps you a channelling you faction hatred and that’s cool. But to look at it seriously, no. A lot of them (most of them) are innocent of what Sylvanas did.

[Yersynia-khazgoroth (Yersynia)]

So you think suffering majorly gives someone carte blanche to do whatever they want to anyone in an opposing nation?

They talk of peace when it suits them.

[Myrrali-moon-guard]

That was Rogers, and I’ll keep saying that if Blizz really wanted a morally grey, Faction pride expansion Rogers shenanigans are exactly what they needed.

So much this. MoP had the most offending moment I’ve ever seen in wow (now I’m just numb to things like it) When Varian and the alliance PC were invited to discuss the Sha.

Now up to this point the alliance have fought conventional warfare, and at worst, tried to remove potential super weapons from the horde hands. But now it was time to discuss maybe fighting fire with fire!

Well oh boy, let me take two seconds to look back over the entire history of the alliance up to this point. Hrmm, nope, Varian is going to 100% say no to the ooze, this is an incredibly weak moral choice. And yet before the words no could even leave his mouth, the story decided to snatch the choice right out of his hands, preventing any grey from even coming close to his pristine white clothes and prove how evil it was then and there. Whew, that was close, the alliance was inches away from maybe making a grey choice, can’t have that happen.

But what if things had been different, what if Rogers had kept it anyway even after Varian said no. What if the alliance was getting creamed by Garrosh’s forces and suddenly Rogers comes up and went “Sir, I know you said no but… we need this, and some of our forces have perfected a way to turn this battle around. Say the word, and we’ll drop these sha bombs.”

Now Varian can say no and stay squeaky clean, but there’s a REALLY good chance they lose the war and the lives of countless soldiers (soldiers who’s friends and families may never forgive him and cause the alliance to crack because there was an easier way) Or he does use the weapon and it works fantastically but he has to live with the knowledge that he did an evil act, and that others will remember him in history for it.

There you go, easy alliance grey/knowingly unforgivable alliance actions that are still reasonable but complex.

[Galenorn-wyrmrest-accord (Galenorn)]

i just want to kill horde, if it means being “morally grey” so be it

It wasn’t morally grey to do it to the Legion. It wasn’t morally grey to do it to the Scourge. It wasn’t morally grey to do it to the Twilight’s Hammer. It won’t be morally grey to do it to Azshara, the Naga, and N’zoth’s tentacley friends.

It’s not morally grey to do it to the Horde. We’ve wiped out much larger forces, for much smaller offenses.

[Tewdee-magtheridon (Tewdee)]

This is the most Human Paladin thread I’ve read all day. Bravo.

[Kharinak-caelestrasz (Kharinak)]

they want the Alliance to become morally darker because they are Horde fans first and foremost (the story forums are overwhelmed with them) and want to be able to blame the Alliance for anything more easily, so they can justify each action of the Horde.

I’ll admit, my personal desire to see a more morally balanced conflict is indeed primarily based on my desire to fix my own faction’s narrative, though I’d have preferred neither faction go through the more horrific war cri-

and then they’d start pressing for the genocide/disbandment of the Alliance, since that’s all they’ve ever wanted!

Wait…what?

[Aeliren-moon-guard (Aeliren)]

Lose the Stupid Good tropes and we’re good to go.

[Withpuppys-nazgrel (Withpuppys)]

But we do treat the horde with kid gloves. Let me off the leash!

[Galenorn-wyrmrest-accord (Galenorn)]

I’m not holding the leash. Believe me, I want off it, too. I had hoped Tyrande giving Anduin the finger would be the beginning of getting of the leash. But deep down, if we’re honest with ourselves, we know it won’t be.

We all know how this story ends. N’zoth finally blatantly shows one of his noodley appendages. Anduin goes all “Oh no! A bigger threat!”, and all is forgiven. The Horde gets away with genocide, scot-free. And the Alliance chooses “making the world a better place” out of the “choose to make the world a better place, or get revenge on the Horde” choice the devs said the Alliance would face, even though the two options are literally the same thing. No justice, no vengeance, no closure, no satisfaction. Hence my unsubbing.

[Withpuppys-nazgrel (Withpuppys)]

“making the world a better place” out of the “choose to make the world a better place, or get revenge on the Horde”

I want vengeance, screw better place