(Off-topic: I keep seeing pancake icons. I am old and ignorant: what’s with the pancakes? pls educate me?)
Its his signature basically.
whatever he says has a pancake at the end.
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LOL yes.
Right, the Shoddy storytelling that got them to want their revenge in the first place and the Shoddy storytelling that had denied them that since.
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So it is a revenge plot and you have a problem with it.
Got it. Could have said so since the beginning instead of giving us the run around.
Not someone. Just you buddy.
First, I love pancakes. Second, the forums used to but no longer allow signatures so I use the emoji. Thirdly, the forums require at least 10 characters in a post but sometimes a post of mine will have less so I use the emoji to meet that minimum requirement.
In a nutshell.
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A problem with shoddy storytelling? I’ve made that known for while now.
K.
What we are discussing is more detailed and nuanced. Just throwing out shoddy story telling doesn’t explain or make any sort of argument.
We know. Big whoop.
Why bother inserting yourself in a discussion you had no interest in? If you are going to participate then at least be honest and put the effort.
If you need me to slow down so you can keep up just ask.
Here is your original accusation that I responded to:
This is you saying that because Horde have grievances against the Alliance in the form of things like the purge or the Burning of Taurajo that they may not be able to handle a more gray Alliance. This is also you implying that the Alliance isn’t actually gray.
My response was simple.
Because of shoddy storytelling the Horde has no other grievances to discuss because basically anytime the Alliance is shown to potentially do something that could be considered gray they are given justification by Blizzard which diminishes any gray the events may have had this preserving the Alliance’s purity.
That response is here:
After this, you responded with this gem:
To which I responded:
To which you responded incorrectly with:
Implying that the Horde maintained its moral purity after those events. Which is patently false.
It went from there to where we are now.
Because obviously I have an interest.
Right back at you.
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Yes, of course. Blizzard had the opportunity to make something of the worgen insofar as adding much needed grayness to the Alliance. Sadly, Blizzard couldn’t commit and instead shoved all the grayness into the Forsaken making them even darker and everyone else (except humans and maybe orcs) is suffering for it.
My concern however was if Blizzard did commit to Alliance grayness through the worgen they would over commit and use them as a scapegoat. To wit, “Ah it was wrong, but it was just the extreme end of the worgen. That doesn’t represent the entire Alliance. And especially not the humans.”
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i don´t think so…i think more it would be …justified with the past, so it would be not so “grey” as blizzard think.
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Or that.
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That’s not really how that works. I like my biases, and believe that I am right in my views, I just don’t want that to negatively impact others.
It should be hard to be biased, as far as I am concerned, considering the Horde is no longer just Orcs, Trolls, Ogres and Warlocks - Death Knights.
The Horde now also consist of races and troll clans that have been victims of Alliance and Human aggression.
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Yes because as I have said several times now to become morally gray a faction must be allowed to commit a morally black action.
Thats why when Andiun (Blizzard) was trying to find some reason to bring Alliance down to the same level as the Horde he had to bring up Arthas of all people.
Thus me.
Telling you.
Allow Alliance to do a morally black moment and make it a story forcus like Theramore or Teldrassil have become.
But you don’t want that even though you are complaining about Alliance moral purity. Either don’t complain or embrace the one solution.
Your response was that since Alliance is allowed to do the purge or Taurajo why aren’t they allowed to be portrayed as villains just as much for these actions right?
My response to you is that is because the Horde does equally bad actions like Hillsbrad questing or Andorhal and they are not villainized for it either. You are asking for an unfair treatment.
If you want Taurajo to become something Alliance is shamed for like Horde narratively like Teldrassil or Theramore then Southshore, ethnic cleansing of Hillsbrad and Andorhal should get equal exposure.
But I think thats dumb and retroactively going back on those events solves nothing.
So its best for the Horde to have equal tragedies that are comparable to Theramore or Teldrassil and have the story actually allow Andiun to come up with some better incidents than frigging Arthas.
Wrong. That is not what I said.
I said the only faction that gets its moral purity is the one that is not allowed to do the teldrassil/theramore.
I never once said the words “After those events” I have no idea where you got that interpretation from.
What you may be referring to is the entire faction gets shamed and blamed for the evil actions but we both know that as always only the warchief is at fault and the Horde are the poor shmucks that got tricked into being bad.
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No. You just have to commit more grey actions, and less pure-white actions.
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Or hell, just have the meta story acknowledge the darker gray actions they already do.
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realistically, all the Alliance needs is less open justification for their atrocities. Whenever the Alliance punches back, it’s always great stuff but it always feels deserved because they’re reactionary rather than proactive.
BfA’s war campaign was amazing for portraying the Alliance because you do all sorts of horrible things, but it’s rationalized as heroism and good deeds.
Realistically, the Horde should be experiencing the same thing during their questing experience but the narrative prefers the Horde feels bad and the Alliance is vindicated for doing whatever they want.
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[edit: play about 70% of the time alliance lately]
It’s all about execution. But it would be nice for both factions to have their “do odd stuff” races. On the alliance side, maybe dark iron would be a group of “we had to learn to do rough stuff / cooperate with the twilight hammer”. And maybe a bit more tame with, say, draenei being “curiosity killed a cat” with having good intentions, but being ok with overlooking the potential risks.
Oh well, maybe some day, maybe in another timeline.
I’d want to revive the kaldorei empire with more members at this point TBH, instead of “human potential”. WoW was based on the W3 legacy, not the W2 one.
Is it fun though?
gl hf
Bro. I quoted you. Here it is again in case you missed it
If you mistyped that’s fine, but I responded to what you actually posted. And what you posted is that the Horde got to maintain its moral integrity/purity after theramore/BoT, which is, again, patently false.
LOL.
No.
Saving a bunch of orphans from a burning building several times and then randomly setting an orphanage on fire with people inside of it doesn’t make you morally gray.
It’s not a hard concept. I’ve already stated that gray events that stick over time will make the faction more gray.
But, no. The only way to make the Alliance gray is to absolutely have them do a Theramore/BoT type event against the Horde in your head. This has nothing to do with adding much needed grayness to the Alliance and everything to do with you just wanting to make Horde more miserable because, as you’ve admitted, you don’t think the Horde has suffered enough.
Again, false.
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Of course. Something Blizzard has been bad at lately.
Again, my hesitation here is that these races would be used as scapegoats.
Yes, that.
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