People spent years looking for a WoW Killer, but it was already out

Turns out the only thing that can kill World of Warcraft is World of Warcraft under the helm of a dev team that is actively passive aggressive toward its player base, with an attitude of “play our way or go blizz yourself” and a list of stakeholders solely made up of bean counting MBAs in suits that came over from Activision. The dev team completely cutting off contact is often blamed on the player base (gaslighting at its finest), but there are plenty of games where the developers interact with their players, either directly or through community managers. Look at Warframe for an example of how a company that doesn’t even have the deep pockets of Activision Blizzard can manage to pull that off.

The sheer hubris of the developers on simple quality of life asks like pvp vendors or a decoupling of rep from core gameplay features, their unwillingness or inability to design content around flying (despite countless examples currently in the game of content that was built with it in mind), and their destruction through neglect of pvp and some classes or specs are the actions that show us where their priorities are: solely and entirely on forcing players in to the content they think we should be playing.

And the worst part is, there is no excuse. They came out at the last blizzcon and told us explicitly that they are aware that players want less rng and more agency. That players want the option to focus on the parts of the game they find enjoyable, and not be forced into specific content over and over again (chores, grind, or however else people express this). The developers know. And they make promises, but then they release things like 8.3, which show no regard for these principles, and then insist that we trust them that Shadowlands will be better.

What trust can there be when there is no action? Words are not enough, though real communication would be a start. Not just forum chats, there are a multitude of options for live streams, twitch channels, and all kinds of other things, and companies that would compete for the right to broadcast them. But it also means that simple actions that can fix current problems (in ways that hurt no one) happen quickly, not "in a few months when we can find a way to implement it as a passive aggressive middle finger to the player base (see the current announcement about flying, but with monsters that slow you with 100 yard range, a clear passive aggressive dig at people who request flying).

And if the current developers can’t bring themselves to learn some humility and actually lower themselves to communicate with their customers, that’s fine. There are a lot of employment opportunities out there, and I encourage Blizzard to give the devs a generous severance package and let them move on to a company that fits better with their “play our way or go blizz yourself” attitude.

Well, that, or watch the WoW Killer do its work. Your game, Blizzard. Your choice. Just don’t expect me to pay to watch you crash one of your flagship products into a mountain.

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ff14 is pretty good wow clone though. And is not going to die like the rest

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Once you take the redpill and realise that the devs actually hate their users, you start to understand perfectly why they make the changes they do.

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Not even taking the time to read this. WoW is still alive. Therefore topic is invalid. Merry Christmas. :slight_smile:

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FF14 actually listens and takes time with their community while doing events with their consumers. It’s going to stay higher than Blizzard for quite sometime. I may not play the game often, but I respect it a lot for what they did to get this high. I give the same respect to ESO and GW2.

Facts like a lot of stubborn decisions is holding this company shine back. I wish they can just let go and stop being hard on their consumers.

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I can’t, for the life of me, imagine feeling this way towards a video game and the developers of a video game and still support them with my time and money each month.

If the game is so bad then find something you enjoy doing with your time. This is a video game, it’s not a life changing decision, just find something you actually enjoy.

lol c’mon

This is like someone forcing themselves to eat seafood when they hate seafood. This is actually nuts.

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Welcome to the club, OP. This has been known since WoD. It just took you a little while longer than the rest of us to come to this conclusion.

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Someone took the red pill. Welcome home brother.

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Some of you say “communication”, but I suspect you just want someone in blue to yell at and tell them how much they suck and for them to reply, "Yes please, may I have another?’

You don’t want to communicate, you want a punching bag to vent your frustrations out on.

The way I know this is that these threads never have constructive ideas, just “everything blizzard sucks because they aren’t doing things exactly the way I want.”

I’d like to see more dev posts myself, but if I was a dev, there is no way I’d post here either with the group of malcontents that haunt this board.

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XIV isn’t really a WoW clone. It’s an MMO that does quite a lot differently from WoW. WoW clones were games that tried to blatantly copy WoW without realizing people weren’t interested in playing a half baked attempt at copying WoW when you can just play WoW.

What’s funny is Tower of Torghast is literally a rip off of Palace of the Dead/Heaven on FFXIV, WoW went from the game that everyone ripped off to the game that rips off everyone.

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but it is. It does same things, but slightly different. In past 3 weeks i spent 200 hours playing ff14 for first time. Just arrived to Stormblood (because i’m trying to complete everything, and also with how dungeons and raids scale for duty finder i can actually experience good group content while leveling)

I even adjusted HUD to look exactly like in WoW.

p.s. Hildibrand questline is a masterpiece

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I used to think it was pretty horrible that Blizzard dropped almost all communication with players, after a while it finally clicked with me why they don’t. Why should they communicate anything to players that just want to spit in their faces?

It doesn’t matter what Blizzard says, doesn’t say, does, or doesn’t do, the lynch mob will be out in full force ready for all out war. I don’t know whether to laugh about it or feel sad for these people.

I guess it’s just part of the culture in this day and age to be insanely upset and offended about everything, I don’t know.

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I wouldn’t call FF a WoW clone. Typical WoW clones are PvE/PvP ambivalent, are laser focused on raids as the only serious PvE end-game, rip-off the Horde vs Alliance faction war of WoW for PvP and of course have PvP servers. FF doesn’t check any of those. (While they indeed do have raids, it’s just a bullet point in the patch notes, and their raids aren’t as big or epic as WoW’s.)

Actual WoW clones are like RIFT, SW:TOR 1.0.

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I’d probably still be playing it if it had a class I was happy with, I even check back from time to time for new ones. I definitely liked what I played.

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People that said “nobody could kill WOW” is wrong, any MMO that took a slice of WOW subscriber technically contribute to killing WOW over time.

FFXIV in general take the paying-subs-only pie for example, none of their player is a freeloader.

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Its more like owning a seafood restaurant and then one day deciding you hate it and opening up an Italian restaurant instead. There is a bit of time investment in our characters and a lot of people are hesitant to drop all of that and start playing another game. And if that other game is one they havent played before then they have to start over from scratch. Level 1, no currency, no gear, no mounts and so on. You have to work your way to the stuff that finds enjoyable again.

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Yeah, welcome to life. Things change, people change, change happens and there is nothing anyone can do about it. You have to either adapt or move on.

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It’s actually sad to see and I 100% agree. Personally I want to play Shadowlands. I can already see the hard work put in by the art team and it already seems that it’s going to be visually incredible. The unfortunate part is that it seems that they’re moving forward with pretty much the same mentality. Haven’t really heard of any massive changes coming in the next xpac that’s supposed to get me excited.

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There’s actually an element of truth in saying FFXIV is a WoW clone.

… if purely on a mechanical, nuts and bolts level. The core gameplay mechanics, in that it’s based off of hotkey-based combat and characters moving in a 3D playing field, is functionally the same type of game. What it does with those core gameplay mechanics is a HUGE divergence from WoW.

A similar analogy would be saying Portal is a clone of Counterstrike. But even within that example, with both games technically being FPS games (both possibly derived from whatever engine Half Life ran on), they are ENTIRELY differently with what they do with it.

FFXIV started out following out WoW fairly closely, but pretty quickly diverged from what WoW was doing and has largely carved out its own niche.


Of course, it probably goes without saying that most prospective “WoW killers” fell in a rather undignified manner. FFXIV, in its original state, was no exception.

… apart from one critical detail…

FFXIV came back, lessons learned and better than ever.
And it has only managed to improve itself since.

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