People need to think harder about what they want with a Frost Rework

Classes Death Knight
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So this ended up longer than I hoped so there’s a much smaller TL;DR at the bottom.

The Current State

It’s pretty clear Frost DK has some major issues, both from a damage profile perspective - with the damage being entirely frontloaded into CDs but backloaded into the end of Pillar - and a playstyle perspective.

Killing Machine is a worthless proc from a gameplay perspective. Procs normally encourage you to use an ability that you wouldn’t at that exact moment for any variety of reasons, such as Rime, Hot Hands, Tactician - you get the idea - or have some triggering mechanism for another proc, passive, etc.

But not Killing Machine. We already press Obliterate whenever we can and KM is just “you do more damage for damage you were already planning on doing”. And then, after using KM, you’re most likely pressing Obliterate again right after.

Yes, there’s obviously variance and you’re not always doing this, but if there’s no Rime proc, RW is on CD, your RP buffs are still at 6+, and you have the runes, why press anything else, really?

And then this repeats. Endlessly for the entire fight. And it’s, unfortunately, entirely what we’re built upon with our current mastery:

Mastery: Frozen Heart
Increases the damage of your Frost abilities by 16.0%

Masteries don’t need to be fancy but they shouldn’t just be flat damage increases to every ability in the kit either. And ours wasn’t, until Shadowlands, and now we have:

Killing Machine
Your auto attack critical strikes have a chance to make your next Obliterate deal Frost damage and critically strike.

When you dig into the logs, almost 90% of Obliterates are Frost damage from KM with the remaining being physical. So Mastery is just extra damage to everything without the upside defensive of Versatility. At that point, Frost Mastery might as well just be replaced with “You gain 1% of extra Versatility for every 2% of Mastery”. At least then I’d have an extra 19.5% DR for my current stats and have more damage on trinkets, the legendary, and other random damage that happens to not be Frost - like autos and those 1 in 10 Obliterates that aren’t KMs.

The Idea of a Rework

Now imagine for a moment there’s a rework coming. And a real rework, not one like Ret that ultimately just shifts around damage and cut out a button, or something small like Cleaving Strikes being removed, made easier, or put somewhere else to be activated.

I mean a real rework, one where abilities, the rotation, the playstyle, even the thematic identity all have changes. I’m talking about the Survival Hunter BFA rework where KC and WFB were added. The Combat → Outlaw rework in Legion. The Enhancement Shadowlands rework [minus identity changes for this one]. Those type of reworks.

A Hypothetical Approach for a Rework

People are asking for things like damage being shifted into the baseline kit and Cleaving Strike changes, but those won’t really change much. Sure, it’ll raise the damage profile a bit, but there’s still huge fundamental problems with the core of Frost that exist, such as:

  • No real reason incentive to prevent RP overflow
  • You want crit for KM procs and as soon as you get one, every point of crit becomes worthless
  • The rotation is still massively slanted towards Obliterate-Obliterate-Obliterate, the precise thing the Legion rework was trying to avoid
  • Procs rarely, if ever, matter. You’re not using every Rime that comes up and getting Killing Machine doesn’t matter since you were very likely going to use Obliterate anyways before you got a proc.

So now imagine the following, ignoring all current capstones, current damage amounts, and other specific talents (like Shattering Blade or Frigid Executioner), and removing Frostreaper (we’ll get back to Obliterate / KM in just a quick second):

Mastery: Frozen Heart
Increases the damage of your Frost & Shadow abilities by X%. Additionally, increase the chance for Shadow Infusion and Frost Infusion to trigger by Y%.

It’s similar in wording to Enhancement’s Mastery Mastery: Enhanced Elements, which is overall a good stat but adds engagement to the playstyle. So, what could infusions do?

Shadow Infusion
When an ability deals Shadow damage, you have a chance, equal to the percentage of damage dealt, to charge your next Frost damaging ability with an Unholy rune, causing it to critically strike. This damage is further increased by your critical strike chance.

How I would describe this proc rate is as follows: If there’s an ability does 100% Shadow damage, there’s an X% chance to proc. If it does 50%, there’s an X% / 2 chance to proc, and so on.

Frost Infusion
When an ability deals Frost damage, you have an X% chance to charge your next Shadow damaging ability with a Frost rune, causing it to strike a second time and generate an extra X RP.

But this makes no sense since there’s no Shadow damage really in the kit outside of Death Coil and D&D. So, we could then have:

Obliterate
A brutal attack deals 75% physical damage and 25% Shadow damage.

That’s basically Scourge Strike, which isn’t a huge deal honestly, and it opens up possibilities, such as:

Killing Machine
Your auto attack critical strikes have a chance to make your next Obliterate deal 100% Shadow damage.

So now, if Shadow Infusion had a baseline proc chance of 40%, regular Obliterate would be 10% and Killing Machine would be 40%. So using a regular Obliterate could proc Rime and/or Shadow Infusion, creating an incentive - in almost every possible scenario - where if you had a Killing Machine proc come up the same time as Shadow Infusion, you’d use the Infusion instead through HB/FS/GA, which is already a huge upgrade over the fact that you would very likely just use the KM proc right now.

And this would still be a simple gameplay loop but it would have the addition of forcing you, the player, off of just mashing Obliterate - or Frost Strike/Glacial Advance in the damage numbers were inverted - to consume the Infusion procs.

Expanding Further

So changes like this have huge avenues for expansion. There could be easier - or free - access to Soul Reaper, and components within the tree could direct how Shadowfrost damage could function, with talents like:

Choice Node of:
More Shadow
Your Shadowfrost abilities now trigger Frost Infusion and benefit from Shadow Infusion

More Frost
Your Shadowfrost abilities now trigger Shadow Infusion and benefit from Frost Infusion

Choice Node of:
Biting Cold
The first time Remorseless Winter deals damage to 3 targets, gain Rime.

Biting Decay
Remorseless Winter now deals [Shadow/Shadowfrost] damage and the first time it deals damage to 3 targets, gain Killing Machine.

And so on with more talents. And with this hypothetical, we would have:

  • Obliterate doing good damage in general and having an avenue to produce big hits that come from using other abilities instead of just pure RNG
  • Frost Strike, Glacial Advance, and Howling Blast/Rime having more of an emphasis on being used
  • A huge thematic shift for Frost to be more Death Knight and less Frost Knight
  • Fixing the 8 year issue of crit being necessary to get KM procs and then the stat immediately being garbage because you got a KM proc

So what’s the point of all this?

This isn’t some “wishlist” of mine. The specifics are just something in general I thought of during the day and honestly, I’m even sure would play well. It’s just an example really, to illustrate the point that Frost feels detached from the Death Knight theme. That Frost has a horrifically stale core kit. That Frost has gameplay issues that stem past being fixed by reducing CD reliance or spreading out damage

But that’s the only thing players keep asking for here. No one’s asking for say, Death Coil to become a 30s CD Shadwfrost spender that hits for 2-3x a regular KM Obliterate’s damage. No one’s asking for KMs to have a chance to make the next Frost Strike proc Shattering Blade and not consume any stacks but act like it did all 5. No one’s asking Remorseless to have a chance to make your next Howling Blast consume KM for 500% more damage or something nutty. It could even just be a simple “Every 50 RP spent makes your next Obliterate do 25% more damage”.

And yes, I’m sure there’s a decent amount of people here that don’t really care that Frost has played exactly the same since the Legion rework, but it’s 8 years. Multiple other classes and specs have had major work and changes to their fundamentals, but the only posts here for months now has ultimately been for more baseline damage.

Outlaw was pretty detached from Rogue thematically; they brought it back to the class’s thematic roots.
Survival was pretty out there in Legion; they brought it, too, back to class’s thematic roots.

Arms had their Mastery reworked almost 3 times in the past 4 expansions. Shadow gets a rework almost every year. Enhance had their entire resource system ripped out and replaced. Evokers literally got an entire spec added mid expansion.

A massive rework - both thematically and gameplay wise - can be done; don’t let anyone tell you it can’t.

And before the inevitable “It sounds like you don’t like Frost” comes around, I do still enjoy the spec, even with its current flaws. It’s just so clearly obvious that it could be something more than what it currently is.

TL;DR:

If you’re asking, wanting, or hoping for a Frost rework, something on the level of Ret or the Havoc, stop settling and start asking for something more. It’s been 8 years and Frost is still aligned to DK mostly in name and a few iconic abilities only - a majority of which aren’t really used or are used begrudgingly. Killing Machine, in its current form, provides nothing a proc normally would because you were already going to use Obliterate anyway and the rest of the core kit just plays by itself really. Where’s our version of Battlelord, Ashen Catalyst, Legacy of the Frost Witch, Crackshot, or A Fire Inside?

Ask Demand more for the spec. Demand a new mastery. Demand more Shadow or Physical damage. Demand more undead or death-magic based abilities and influences. Demand that procs actually have an impact on changing your rotation like almost every other spec has. Demand changes that will promote more engaging, thoughtful gameplay. Demand that Death Pact is easier to get.

Whatever it is, you should be demanding that Frost be a Death Knight first, a Frost Death Knight second, and have abilities that aren’t just isolated from each other.

25 Likes
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This is the kinda rework I would love to see. A real mix up of how the spec works and moving the design away from CD reliance, and auto attack procs to give the spec a chance to truly have DW/2h options be equal. I really love the idea of bringing more shadow back into the spec because fDKs are still DKs after all. The kind of class fantasy you are proposing would really bring it inline with the arthas LK hero fantasy.

I’m on board for something like this as long as 2h plays well into it with bursty hits. Not just oblit oblit oblit, but being able to load up a big hitting ability after a couple of globals.

3 Likes
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I like your idea

Then I will also share mine

Keep in mind I’m a casual

But out of the three specs I’ve probably played frost the most

I’ll stay away from numbers as I explain.

The idea is to change the spec into a tanky brawler but adding things like Dots and a few ranged abilities into the mix while still getting big hits, with great cleave.

First off DND is replaced with something like this (I’m not good at naming)

[ frosted blades circle ]

Places a AoE at the target location, that creates a whirl of ice blades inflicting ice damage while also applying life draining wounds at Some amount of stacks

[ life draining wounds ]

Deals damage and detonates a stack of wounds each time it deals damage, the higher the stack number the faster it consumes itself… a chance to also consume multiple stacks for more damage while also healing the dk for a portion of the damage dealt.

[ Shadowfrost blades ]

Consume runes to conjure blades of frost imbued with shadow energy of the realm of death

Three successive shots are used on a proc and one salvo without a proc create life draining wounds and also creates [ Splintered shards of blades ] dealing damage at reduced effectiveness from damage dealt to the main target

(didn’t word it right here but essentially a group cleave, while the damage at secondary targets are stored and given in a dot btw this is ranged)

Passive

[ rule or the frozen waste ]

All frost or shadow frost abilities apply Necrotic Frost and on a dot critical strike apply withering body and soul while melee strikes apply life draining wounds

And all ranged abilities has a chance to apply life draining wounds

(Each dot of withering body and soul along with necrotic frost both can stack up to 3)

[ necrotic frost ]

Wounds have gone necrotic slowing the target for a percentage and dealing damage also gives a chance to give runic power

At three stacks it can detonated with shadow frost blades healing the dk for a portion of the damage while giving a chance for Frost empowerment

Withering body and soul ]

Frost has infected both body and soul after being tempered by the frozen wastes…

Dot lasts so and so many seconds and stacking up to three times each time it deals damage it procs faster and faster eventually imploding in the target on expiration dealing combined dot damage at a percentage of total damage dealt during its effect… more stacks makes the dot proc faster while also giving the dk frost empowerment

[ frost empowerment ]

Regenerates runes faster and a small chance to reset all runs entirely on proc during frost empowerment all abilities deal bonus frost damage for so and so many seconds any frost empowerment can be stored up to 2 times in [ frost attunement ]

Now… I could go on but you guys probably got the feel for it… your guys brains can make up or change and someone with a more expert mind then my own can probably do more, but of course this is simply an idea.

Now I hope you all have a great time in Azeroth and in life. Peace out

3 Likes
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While I dislike some of your takes in other threads.

This idea sounds pretty amazing.
It allows frost to become a Shadowfrost sustain damage machine and I really like that. It gives us a rotation and the chance at doing meaningful damage outside of pillar.

A survivability talent in the tree could then be:
Death Strike does X% as Shadow damage. Your critical strikes with shadow damage heal you for x% of the shadow damage done.

3 Likes
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Im for it but i like the OG KM where it worked with HB and FS

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Damn there’s some great ideas in there, that genuinely sounds pretty good and I love the theme

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If there is a rework then Blizzard needs to ignore every single player and just redo absolutely everything except its core principles.

At its core its focuses were
1.RP
2.Being a death machine (all DKs were truthfully)
3.DW

Frost had a focus on RP, at least a lot more than the other 2 specs. It created more RP and used it more efficiently. Frost Strike was even a part of KM until Legion.

We need to be more death knight than frost knight. We have the abilities, we have the procs, it just needs to be applied in a better way than it currently is. Rune Strike being the new rune spender, do something else with Obliterate, change the mastery to focus on RP spending and generation whatever that might be.

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I am pleased that the broader playerbase is willing to say our specs (barring blood) are not salvageable in their current iteration, Death & Decay gameplay or not.

The more vocal the better. We need substantial changes.

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Honestly, i would be fine with just these for now.

Remove the oblit cleave. Death and decay should not be a part of frost rotation.

Frostscythe is a baseline ability, either it procs from killing machine, so KM makes oblit become Frostscythe with added aoe benefit and hits with both weapons, or scythe consumes 2 runes, and it’s basically used in place of obliterate for aoe.

Allow specs that have split loot to choose the weapon type they want, or screw the roleplayers and choose one or the other. Unholy is the 2h spec, frost is the dw spec.

Shattering blade, works with glacial advance too, so there is an aoe interaction, and the 15% damage increase from razorice is factored into the actual hit. Because right now the 15 % damage is wasted when you use frost strike.

During obliteration windows, you should not have moments where you are starved for resources purely due to bad luck, increase the proc rate of things like runic empowerment, and the obliteration rune proc itself, but only during pillar of frost with obliteration talented.

Frostwyrm is also not worthy of being a capstone in my opinion. Just not good enough.

I also have issues with how most things are about runes for frost, gathering storm scales only with runes for example, problem is, i don’t really see a way to balance this with breath being the way it is. If they were to add runic power scaling to things like gathering storm, you would basically have remorseless up all the time with breath, which would skew things even more in it’s favor. The only way i could see this working is if with breath talented, you cannot get double scaling from runes and runic power.

And finally, make runic power abilities dynamically scale, it’s no secret that one of the biggest issues for obliteration is wasting a LOT of runic power, they can do 2 things to solve this issue.

1: increase the Rp pool to around 150/200
2: make frost strike and advance consume up to 50 or even 100% extra rp when you have it.

So base cost 30, if you have more, advance/strike consume more, 45 if capped at 50%, 60 if capped at 100% extra rp and damage. Also, runic empowerment, with 45 you would have a 90% chance of proccing a rune, but if it was 60 you would have 120, the solution is simple, that extra 20% is a chance to get 2 runes instead of 1.

But overall i don’t really think that frost needs a full rework, just some changes here and there. Maybe something else comes to mind.

2 Likes
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all the brainstorming in here is cool. I Like a bunch of these ideas. My favorite iteration of FDK was Icy Citadel/Ice Cap back in BFA.

As much as I want to like this current interation, I really cannot get behind the gameplay of micro-managing buffs like Unleashed Frenzy and Icy Talons, when spending RP is already de-incentivized in our CD windows. And don’t even get me started with how bad DnD Oblit cleave feels to play in dungeons.

I hope DK gets the rework it deserves because Blood is the only spec I can stomach at the moment.

edit: oh and i’d love to see DW oblit frost become viable again. It’s the only dual-wield 1h str weapon class left in the game. Having to spend a talent point for AoE Razorice application(another maintenance buff?) seriously cringe.

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I will just come back the dk forums to say this everywhere. Because I do not think people realize what we will lose if we lose cleaving strikes. Any other solution needs to be BASELINE and not part of a talent tree. Frost right now excels at being able to single target and aoe cleave with little talent investments.

Removing cleaving strikes and moving towards fsc or the likes is fine as long as we do not lose the agency of being able to do single target and quickly changing to cleave or having to pick one talents or the other.

I understand the frustration with having to remain in DnD although I think it is exaggerated in these forums. Moving to a non stationary aoe is fine as long as we do not brick frost by having to choose aoe or single target through talents. Pleaseeeee understand this is like the only think oblit has going right now is on demand aoe or single target with great prio damage.

do you play other classes?.. oh look a kill command proc, deffinately was going to press that before. oh look the button i always hit on ret is glowing, better hit again for free this time. oh look raging blow reset i can hit it like i would be anyway. oh look i got a free devouring plauge, i was going to cast that anyway, hey cool shadow word death proced i can press it again like i do on cd anyway. oh look i got extra combo points and can eviscerate… like i always do. oh look lava burst… deffinately wasnt going to press that…

I can go on but literally what you are describing as how procs work… doesn’t apply to anything in this game. The fact that howling blast is ONLY pressed during rime is nearly the only occurrence of your idea of how procs should work.

No FROST dks should not do more shadow damage. No FROST dks do not need more undeath minions and ghouls.

This has nothing to do with frost as a specialization and you are asking for an entire death knight rework from the base up. This isn’t going to happen. Honestly most of your suggestions gut FROST damage out of FROST death knight and replace it with shadow damage and physical damage. There is unholy death knight that has all the shadow and phys and ghouls that you want… I thoroughly don’t understand I guess.

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I’ll agree with that part.

But I think bringing shadow into the mix and utilising shadowfrost damage is a great idea. Very on point for Death Knights.

I also think this is important because so many other specs get to do free aoe/cleave from their st build and it just makes the spec more stream line. But it didn’t have to be cleaving strikes. RW is already an ability we use for ST and aoe that is baseline that would be good for such a purpose. Rime too.

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Raging Blow and KC are precisely procs that don’t fall into the “was going to press it anyways” category.

A KC/RB proc isn’t something you want to endlessly spam and ignore everything else within those kits so yes, it is a “proc that actually has an impact on your rotation” because you pressed the button with the idea that it would go on CD or use a charge. If changes from “I just used my builder and it’s on CD so I don’t need to worry” to “Oh I got a refund proc, do I use it again immediately or maybe in another GCD?”. Whether you believe it or not, those procs are scattered across a majority of specs and the answer being “just press it again because you were going to anyway” is rarely at the level with Obliterate and KM.

BoJ you could make the argument, but that’s 1 spec out of what, 36? Overpower resets require you to actually play the game with your abilities, they don’t just passively happen for existing and even then, is not something “you were just going to press anyways”. Same with Stormbringer for Storm Enh, AFI for Havoc, Aftershock for Ele. All are procs that can change your gameplay from a state of “time to do something else” to “I get to do that again!”.

When you get KM, you were already going to press Obliterate anyways so it doesn’t matter. When you get a reset proc, especially with KC/RB/AFI, there isn’t a guarantee you were planning to press it again immediately. When you get Stormbringer or Aftershock proc, there was 0% chance you were going to press Stormstrike/a spender again because they were on CD/out or resources respectively, so they are gamechanging procs.

Really not a difficult concept to grasp and the fact you brought up bad examples really just confirms to me that you just like to hear yourself talk and don’t actually care it what you say contributes to a post or not.

You clearly skimmed past these just to get to your “Frost should only do Frost damage” point. And I never said it should do Shadow damage or have more pets; again, just an example.

They probably should. It’s a pretty lazy way of designing a spec for it to have every ability do the same damage type and for mastery to increase that, especially for a class that traditionally had a decent amount of mixed damage types. Ret has just about always been some form of Holy damage and rolling the last 2 builders, which were sub 10%~, into that isn’t remotely comparable to taking Frost’s last 30%~+ of non-Frost damage and rolling it in.

But again, I never said I wanted Frost to do more Shadow damage, it was just an example.

Again, you clearly didn’t read what the intention of this post is and just took is as another “Here’s what a rework/What I want” thread, which again confirms to me that you don’t really read posts outside of the title and maybe a few lines just so you can hear yourself.

A mirror might be a better companion for you than the forums.

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You actually write that everyone should demand more shadow and phys damage and undeath death magic… I read it. You are just trying to make frost dk not a frost dk. It doesn’t make sense.

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Forget the sentiments, I do enjoy the creativity in the post sorry if I jumped the gun on hating it.

However,

Really is the only point I care to make.

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God forbid death knights are actually damn death knights. If you dont like what a death knight actually is then dont play it. We should be doing shadow frost and physical damage, we should be summoning the undead even if just temporary, we should be spreading disease and interacting with them. Way to show that you dont actually want to play a death knight but a Frost Knight.

But, this doesnt mean that shadow should take over frost, or that physical should take over frost, its just that it should have it in it BECAUSE THATS WHAT A DEATH KNIGHT IS. Ive been dealing with this nonsense for years and now others are seeing it. This is why the DK is in the state its in, its not even a Death Knight anymore, its not even slightly resembling Arthas either, its just a bastardization of something we once had that was great due to peoples narrow minded view of what the specs should be.

How about we actually become death knights again. It has everything but focuses on a certain aspect of the class more. If shaman were like this Elemental would just be elemental damage, enhancement should be a support type spec enhancing itself and others, and restoration would be a healer all just based on what the spec names are. But thats not what it is, its a Shaman first and foremost.

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Why doesn’t Frost Mage use Fire spells rotationally? Why doesn’t Marksmanship use melee attacks or necessitate the use of a pet? Why doesn’t Protection use Slam?

Themes aren’t limited to damage types or the like. You can have the undying behemoth in a way that feels cohesively “Death Knight”… in distinct ways. Many specs don’t even have as much overlap as current DK does within its offensive skills and yet still maintain strong class identities.

Elemental solely enhances elemental damage. Enhancement solely enhances its enhanced weapon attacks. Restoration solely enhances its Restoration abilities. They are no more or less “Shaman” than Blood, Frost, and Unholy are “Death Knight”.

Death Knight’s thematic problems aren’t born of the lack of overlap; its the lack of cohesive ruleset or overarching idea on which to base that overlap and create sensible synergies.

Enhancement shaman doesn’t have to explain away why it’d have a Healing Surge available to it, and Maelstrom synergizes with it, nor having elemental casts, as that’s what its enhancements synergize with. Elemental doesn’t have to explain away its defensive, as to planewalk is to pass through… the elemental planes. The same source that allows for elemental powers, per lore, also allows for healing magic – nature and healing magics generally being/acting through a combination of elements. Etc., etc.

But DK? Why should Blood, thematically, have Icebound Fortitude, or Lichborne? Why wouldn’t it simply make more interesting use of its own, more thematic tools instead? What does Blood even do with Lichborne, given that Death Strike typically will outheal even a Lichborne self-Death Coil?

The problem isn’t so much having less thematic overlap than most classes; it doesn’t. It’s that it lacks apparent reason/rationale for it.

  • When they made differing use of a shared set of Runes, for example, there was more to explain away, but also a better overarching explanation for everything else.
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I’ll just say that lichborne is a fear immunity, a damage reduction, and 10% leech. All very useful defensive/utility for blood.

I also think it makes sense for fDK to have some shadow mixed in for shadow frost identity. We don’t want to be melee frost mages. But tbh I care more about the spec design functionally rather than if we are doing X or y school of magic.

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Again, context:

Why Lichborne over more strictly/deliberately Blood-related tools? How does Lichborne come to feel like Blood, beyond or at least equal to what a new/revised Blood CD could?

And how, now that there are no split Runes, etc., does it make Blood feel more “DK” for limiting its take on that function to that Unholy-based form? It still doesn’t feel any more a part of Blood or Blood a part of it; it just feels like an arbitrary cross-over because there’s nothing to make it feel fitting.

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Because of narrow minded thinking like Frost = only frost damage, fire = only fire damage and so on.

Because they use a bow, not to mention there used to be limits to hunter where too close and they couldnt use their bows at all and it was never worth it to actually be in melee range due to the loss of use of your bow. They also did use a pet, hunters are probably the worst example you could have used.

Another bad example.

What?

No, you cant have something that feels like a death knight without being a death knight. Others feel this same way that they want to be a Death Knight, not a frost knight, not a blood knight, but a death knight.

This is where the problem stems from, Blood should use Icebound Fortitude and Lichborne because THEY ARE A DEATH KNIGHT. Its really that simple.

If you have to ask this, you are part of the problem. This is the same mindset people had in wrath when trying to dps as Frost and thought that Frost had to be in Frost Presence because Frost is Frost is Frost.

Go play Blood and look through the talents. You can do a lot with it.

Yes it is. People want to play a Death Knight.

TO BE A DEATH KNIGHT.

This right here, this is the problem. Narrow minded thinking that Blood should do blood because Blood. You should feel like a Death Knight… A DEATH KNIGHT. People do not feel like a Death Knight which could be another reason why people dont play it because once you go into a specialization (which people are treating as a different class within a class) you should have a higher focus of an aspect of the class but not completely do away with the rest of the class because “Frost does Frost only because Frost”.

Why even have a class tree in that case? Get rid of it. Why even have Death Knight as a class, break it apart and create 3 distinct classes since that is essentially what you are advocating for. “But im not advocating anything” yeah, you are. In defending this way of thinking you are advocating for this over simplified way that the specs should be. Frost = Frost only, Blood = Blood only, Unholy = Unholy only. Well, how do you decide what is what? Blood of the North, it has blood in the name… so does it go to Blood or does it go to Frost where it originally was? How about Sudden Doom? That was originally Blood. Lichborne? You brought that up, it turns you undead so it should be Unholy right? But it was a Frost ability. Might of Mograine… Mograine used Remorseless Winter so that should mean hes Frost right because Frost = Frost… but its a Blood talent.

We should be a Death Knight first and foremost. Dont listen to people who have this limited view that Frost should only use Frost abilities and make a class. Or get rid of Frost and Blood because the WC3 DK was 100% unholy and Frost and Blood have no place in the class if you really want to nitpick.

1 Like